DFD: 458 vs. 730, 406 vs. 597

[Renegade]

DFD: Daily Feature Deathmatch

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The Cruel Fight For Implementation

This is a Daily Feature Deathmatch post. If you are unfamiliar with the background of this event, please read the announcement and the schedule.

Fight 1

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[0000458] VeteranAbilities stack to EliteAbilities vs. [0000730] TS Missile feature[Image include]

Fight 2

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[0000406] 2 Bases 4 People vs. [0000597] Several Laser Weapons Improvements

By the end of the 48 hour period, two of these issues will be suspended, while the other two move on to the next round.
Remember that the coders will not take part in the discussion, so make your arguments complete, concise and convincing - when it's over, it's over.

Part of that is clearly marking what outcome you support for which issue.
There should be no ambiguity in the issue you're talking about, and it should be clear what outcome you support. Feel free to put your stance in bold, and use simple terminology like "kill #69" or "I want #42 to survive".
A decision will be made either way, so a lack of discussion will not cause all issues to live.

Be friendly, be civil, be logical.
You are allowed to try to deconstruct the arguments of those arguing against your candidate, but remember that they don't make the call - there is really no point in getting personal.

The discussion should be contained in this thread, argumentations elsewhere will be ignored, but you are allowed to transfer and adapt points made elsewhere in the past.

We want a good, clean fight.
Let's get it on!

End: ~ 19:00, 11.07.2010.

[jimmy3421]

Support #730 #597

Fight 1
I don't understand another.
And I had tried logic like #730 several years ago...but no result.

Fight 2
More Laser! This is my selfishness.

[MRMIdAS]

[0000458] is the more interesting prospect, although having an even more beefed up Apoc is pretty scary. selfheal would just heal the unit even quicker, speed sight etc would stack, and, if possible, a control for if the elite abilities carry over to elite weapons, while stacked.

[0000406] looks the most interesting out of the two issues, i suspect it'll be a bitch to code, and the laser improvements are wanted by many, but a co-op mode that utilises this would be both fun and frustrating in equal measure.

[Marshall]

Support 597 because laser widths give for greater diversity with laser weapons, and it's needed to be able to tick that one off the list of features that NPatch has but Ares doesn't.

Kill 406 because I can see it being far too complicated to code and would result in a lot of bugs and iterations to get it working right. Plus it is a complicated concept anyway and no better than having two teams who are allied.

Support 458 because there aren't enough useful abilities to give enough to veteran stage and then elite stage. Stacking allows all abilities to be given in smaller doses.

Kill 730 because it's already doable without the need for a superflous Ares feature.

[reaperrr]

Fight 1
#730 is just another feature that should be rather easy to emulate with #504, and in my opinion it's quite unlogical that Veteran- and EliteAbilities don't stack (I'm a bit embarrassed to admit I didn't even know that fact, I had always assumed they DID stack).

So my vote is clear, kill #730, support #458.


Fight 2
This is more difficult, because to me both belong into the "nice to have, but nothing spectacular"-category. All-in-all I consider #597 more useful though, I'd probably use it myself, so kill #406, support #597.

[Beowulf]

Kill #458. The idea is rather ridiculous and would easily lead to very overpowered units. YR is already silly enough, we don't need to extend the nonsense further. As such, I support #730, because it's essentially reintroducing Cyborg Reaper weapon logic, which we really need. This actually extends weapon capability in such a way that new options will be available, that even #504 won't be able to emulate correctly.

Kill #406. While that might be interesting in some regards, it would probably be more annoying in the end than anything else. I support #597. Ares needs some laser weapons lovin's.

The choices are clear;
Kill #458 and #406.
Support #730 and #597.

[Blade]

I'd rather see the TS logic resurrected than stacking veteran powerups. I'm assuming this means things like firepower upgrades increasing by a second increment. With the proposed feature where promotion can change one unit to another 458 would be emulatable anyway and with unit transform on pormotion being more flexible I see no reason for 458 to be considered further.

I agree broadly with the sentiments already expressed regarding 406 and 597. 406 looks complicated and isn't a game play mode I personally think is all that much fun in an RTS. Then again I don't really think all that much of controllable laser widths when we already have the wave laser and big laser options for larger beams. I'd still rather see that implemented than the multiplayer coop though. Incidentally, I haven't tested but can you stack the normal laser with the wave laser effects?

[¥R M0dd€r]

Alright.........

Fight 1
[0000458], I say kill it, have nothing else to say.
[0000730], I support. This already possible in YR? No it is not already possible in YR, however, reaper logic isint really needed, we can create this logic if burstdelay=0 worked(wich means all shots will be fired at the same frame).

Fight 2
This fight is hard, I love both, I really love both
[0000406], I like it, but we probaly get Reconnection Error all day, so I say kill it.
[0000597], I support it. I am disappointed this needed feature is in this deathmatch and not confirmed/assigend. Laser size is cool and look good. In NPatch, laser size 1-6 did look awesome, bigger was ugly, but its still very nice. Like having some epic large tank fire small but powerful lasers is kinda wierd

[Black Shadow 750]

Support #458, mostly because as stated, #730 can be reproduced in Vanilla.
Support #597, finally laser beams that don't draw until impact, also 406 just seems silly.

Kill: 730, 406
Support: 458, 597

[¥R M0dd€r]

Support #458, mostly because as stated, #730 can be reproduced in Vanilla.
Support #597, finally laser beams that don't draw until impact, also 406 just seems silly.

Kill: 730, 406
Support: 458, 597

I tell once again, it cannot be done in Vanilla

[Black Shadow 750]

Have you tried it?

[Modder666]

I have. Splits= does not work for me.

[Dupl3xxx]

I support 730, 'cos new a new kind of weapon is alyaws nice.

I don't think 406 needs to be so complicated as splitting controll. Put simple, let to players have total controll over their units and base and whatnot. Lets say my base is attacked and there is 10 apocs in my base, but I con only controll buildings. That would do me nothing good.

Also, VK made a tool that aloved peopel controll eachothers base. Maby that could be used as a base?

Support 730, 406.
kill the rest

[¥R M0dd€r]

I want to ask the coders if 406 is hard to implant? If its not, then I would support it, but I honestly think this box is going to popup every 5 minutes:

[AlexB]

Fight 1
I read the arguments and slept on them. Then I read them again. I can see next to no good arguments. And now I'm supposed to weed them out. Why should stacking abilities be unbalanced? The modder is required to check whether his changes are unbalancing the game. By setting a few entries in rulesmd.ini everyone could give the GI super-strong armor and a horse-sized package. It's up to the modder to balance. Emulating the reaper logic by using hacks, some people say it is already possible in vanilla YR, some say it is not. (Splits, indeed, does not exist in YR. Hacks may be possible, I don't know and I won't test.) Having to emulate the reaper burst logic by using two weapons that fire at the same time would remove the option to create a reaper-like unit. To do something similar, both weapon slots must be used. The original reaper also has a net thrower, and there is no Tertiary=WebLauncher yet. Let's do the TS Missile feature properly.

Fight 2
This one is easier: Lasers. Even if controlling a single base with two people would be nice, coding and testing this is beyond all reason compared to the laser stuff. Lasers got more support and extending the feature would most likely benefit more community members.