Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
DFD: 459 vs. 237, 335 vs. 818
#1
DFD: Daily Feature Deathmatch

The Cruel Fight For Implementation

This is a Daily Feature Deathmatch post. If you are unfamiliar with the background of this event, please read the announcement and the schedule.

Fight 1

[0000459] Save multiplayer game vs. [0000237] The ability to disable or enable countries via game modes

Fight 2

[0000335] LineTrail alterations vs. [0000818] Trained veterans, like the Atreides in Emperor

By the end of the 48 hour period, two of these issues will be suspended, while the other two move on to the next round.
Remember that the coders will not take part in the discussion, so make your arguments complete, concise and convincing - when it's over, it's over.

Part of that is clearly marking what outcome you support for which issue.
There should be no ambiguity in the issue you're talking about, and it should be clear what outcome you support. Feel free to put your stance in bold, and use simple terminology like "kill #69" or "I want #42 to survive".
A decision will be made either way, so a lack of discussion will not cause all issues to live.

Be friendly, be civil, be logical.
You are allowed to try to deconstruct the arguments of those arguing against your candidate, but remember that they don't make the call - there is really no point in getting personal.

The discussion should be contained in this thread, argumentations elsewhere will be ignored, but you are allowed to transfer and adapt points made elsewhere in the past.

We want a good, clean fight.
Let's get it on! Dual M16

End: ~ 19:00, 10.07.2010.
Forum Rules

(01.06.2011, 05:43:25)kenosis Wrote: Oh damn don't be disgraced again!

(25.06.2011, 20:42:59)Nighthawk Wrote: The proverbial bearded omni-bug may be dead, but the containment campaign is still being waged in the desert.
#2
Fight 1: While I can understand why some people request this, I believe the vast majority of players either ends their games within 1 hour, plays over LAN where players could simply take a break, or doesn't play multiplayer at all. So I think the number of people that would benefit from #459 is rather low.
#237 on the other hand sounds interesting, you could even use it to make a "hidden" faction that is only available in a certain game mode. I like the idea.
Kill #459, support #237.

Fight 2:
LineTrail alterations is a purely cosmetical feature, but would be nice nonetheless.
Trained Veterans has more gameplay value, but there are already several other ways to obtain veterans.
I think I prefer LineTrail alterations, because they can be used not only for engine smoke, but also for water waves (and I mean better looking ones than this simple animation used right now) and even track/wheel traces.
Or in some fun, comic mod for very fast infantry Wink

Normally I prefer gameplay enhancements over visual enhancements, but I believe #335 has more possible usage scenarios.

So I say kill #818, support #335.
#3
Fight 1 is a tough call, thinking just like a modder and I can see why people will instantly go for the option that creates the most diverse game experience in #237 and it would certainly be useful for creating a more "pure" classic RA2 mode in YR if it were possible to remove Yuri entirely for that mode. However I do think there would be a demand in the more casual user base for being able to save their multiplayer games. Not everyone has time to put into a full match in one go, look at how chess can be played by post over time for example of the kind of players who might want to save. The modder in me says kill #459, but it might not be the most desired decisions out side of modders.

I have to agree with reaperrr on the second fight, kill #818. The reason I say this is because I don't think it really suits the pace of an RTS to have that kind of micro managed feature. In a turn based game where it might take hours for a unit to get any reasonable experience I can see the point, but not in RA2 where unit turn over can be quite rapid and elite units are quite over powered due to their relative scarcity.
#4
[0000237] seems more useful, could make the AI better in "unholy alliance" by having one team available, with said team taking advantage of the "sides" logic, or even having certain sides available for certain skirmish modes.

[0000818] is supported by me, but as an extension of the "country upgrade" feature, including veteran and elite buildings, as well as elite tanks, infantry and aircraft.
[Image: MRMIdAS2k.jpg]
MRMIdAS: No longer allowed to criticise Westwood on PPM
#5
818, 237 to advance
let the others go.
Actually... Alterations to line trailers would be nice, but not quite as useful.
#6
I'm going for 237 here, savable multiplayer games seem like they would be real annoying to deal with for little gain. You really shouldn't dedicate 5 min to a multiplayer game, 1 hour at least is needed but little more.

Personally, I don't mess with Line Trails too much, plus it seems that a few pixels more of trailer doesn't mean much. Also, I suggested the other feature, but mainly because I thought it was one of those flashy logics.
[Image: darkstormsmall.png]
#7
I disagree on the multiplayer save games being really annoying nessesarily, work needs to be put into the save game functionality sooner or later anyway since currently none work properly and I think its unfair to impose your own opinions on how people "should" play multiplayer games and how much time they "should" allocate.
#8
Support #237 #818

Fight 1
Save Multiplay games is ridiculous ,unless it is Mulitplay record.

Fight 2
#818 also can solve #288 which be killed.
New Engine Promotion Center
YR engine promotion center of Taiwan !
#9
#459:
Saving multiplayergames is ridiculous. how do you get every single participant to enter the game just in the same time? how do you manage the simultanious loading of the save-file?

#237:
You can define which units/buildingsa etc. may be build for each gamemode.
You can add/delete/edit countries (#196)
So, this request is generally about not seeing certain countries in the bar which you dont want to use.

i'd say Kill #459
or kill both if you want to
_______________________________________

#335:
Cosmetical stuff, but id like to see the faked water animation proposed by reaperrr

#818:
another way to build veterans
i got better ideas in my mind about how to get veteran units, thinking about the Killcounter.prerequisite request.

Kill #818
or even kill both.

we had 4 "meh" issues today
#10
Kill #459. It's already possible to save Skirmish games and there's a good reason it's not even close to possible to saving an online multiplayer game! I don't see a good use case for #459.
#237 is at least somewhat useful in more instances. There are more use cases, especially in the case of game mode flexibility.

#335 and #818 are both good, and I'd like to see both of them move on, but I would like #335 to move on foremost. The idea is flexible and allows for some interesting eyecandy; it could even be extensible to create bullet tracer effects, which is what I'd like to see.
In summation, kill #818.
I'm what Willis was talkin' about.
#11
I say Kill #459. Trying to save a multiplayer game and then later syncing up all the players to the same game would be outlandishly complicated. As Beowulf said above there is a good reason why this isn't possible. #237 could actually be quite useful and fun to play around with, however there are many unfortunate issues / bugs that would have to be fixed for this to be feasible. For instance, changes to avaliable countries via game mode changes will only take effect AFTER a skirmish game has been loaded with that game mode's settings. So, for this to be feasible, game mode settings would have to be loaded immediately upon leaving the map selection screen.

However hard that might be, i still say Support for #237, kill #459.

Strong support for #335. Extra line trail features has been a major hope/aspiration of mine since the beginning of this patch. I make very extensive use of LineTrails already, and I have many places where I could use this feature to make my aircraft, etc. look awesome

As for #818, the original requester said himself in the issue that it wasn't very important, and the way I see it, the amount of modders that would make even limited use of that feature is rather small.

So, support #335, kill #818
#12
(09.07.2010, 14:04:11)Firefly Wrote: #459:
Saving multiplayergames is ridiculous. how do you get every single participant to enter the game just in the same time? how do you manage the simultanious loading of the save-file?
Surely it would work like hosting a new multiplayer game - but where the map you're playing on is a previously saved game?
In this case, I suspect that "Saved Games" would be best displayed as another gamemode?

I'm not certain, but I've seen online games saved and loaded on a few other RTS games, and they effectively worked as such.

Either way though, it isn't as useful as disabling/enabling countries via gamemodes, which I can see a bunch of uses for. Like having different eras within one mod, so it would be possible to have post-RA pre-RA2 allies/soviets, then RA2 allies/soviets, then post-RA2 allies/soviet, and so on. Coupled with adding new countries, this feature looks like a good idea to me.
#13
Fight 1
Since saving multiplayer matches would be hard work that wouldn't have a real impact on the game and disabling/enabling coutries for each game mode could be used for unholy alliance and other game modes that could benefit from customizable country selection. Saving and loading single player matches should be possible some day, but saving multiplayer matches, even if other games can do it, is unreasonably complicated for little gain. Thus: #237.

Fight 2
Indeed, trained veterans is just another way of creating veterans. The use is quite limited and there seems to be a vast balancing issue if this is not done right. A finite number of veterans can create an unlimited number of veterans. All in all, LineTrail not only got more supporters in the ranking system, the good arguments here clearly outweight the trained veteran's ones. It's eye candy but, if used, players will see it all day long and not just in some rare occasions.
#14
Support #237, because it's actually useful and #459 would be a downright pain in the ass to code.
Support #335 because it's simple to do and I'm growing tired of "$other_game has $logic so we need it too" requests like #818.

Worth playing: 1 | 2 | 3
#15
Results:

Fight 1:

Loser #459
Victor #237


Fight 2:

Loser #818
Victor #335
Forum Rules

(01.06.2011, 05:43:25)kenosis Wrote: Oh damn don't be disgraced again!

(25.06.2011, 20:42:59)Nighthawk Wrote: The proverbial bearded omni-bug may be dead, but the containment campaign is still being waged in the desert.




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)