Rock Patch 1.10 development thread

[VK]

Is RP still paused?

yes

I dont se any wrong with it at all. The version tab was good for people that dont understand.
What your problem is with it?

I don't need Ren's opinions about version;
My version is very clear and right
So it must there instead of this stupid one.
But the King of Mod Enc Ren don't think so.

[Nighthawk]

Why won't you understand?? Your version scheme is there, it's being compared to a standard numbering scheme, not changed, not being made redundant, not having any effect on the patch whatsoever. What the hell is your problem with it? It's like having a legend for a graph, or a key for a street map.
And why are you criticising Renegade for what he puts on his site. If it was your site, and he started putting stuff up that you didn't want, then yes, you have reason to complain, but it's not your site. Renegade even says in his rules that he owns the domain and pays for this whole thing, so what he says goes, and he has a right to do that, whereas you do not, even if you are coding an exe-hacking project that has many modders (including myself) relying on it.

[Renegade]

No.PD's "a b c" - isn't revision, it's versions.

Ooh, you think renaming the bugfix-versions to "revisions" is gonna save your ass here?
They're all releases. Your "revisions" are publically released versions of RockPatch just like pd's bugfix versions were.
Either you treat them all equally, or you stfu. But nobody here is stupid enough to not notice this cheap cover-up of the fact that of 17 versions you released, 14 were bugfix-versions just like pd's b and c releases.

You should forget about it - it's in history!
(I delete all RPCE and RPCE74 installers except RPCE #0051& RPCE74 #0102)
However this only first version, which use revisions system, so it can have some issues

Ah...so your faults of the past are irrelevant, because they're in the past, but pd's are relevant for the discussion?
You are so ridiculous. You can't seriously believe you can cherry-pick your goods and pd's bads here?

I don't need Ren's opinions about version;
My version is very clear and right
So it must there instead of this stupid one.
But the King of Mod Enc Ren don't think so.

Riiight...so let me get this straight:
I tell everyone, both here and at ModEnc, that it's no problem to change the numbering on the page, as long as there's a good reason to do so, even noticing right on the article page that it might be necessary if you release 1.10, too keep the numbers in line, while you sit here screaming "NOOOO!!! MY NUMBERS ARE TEH ALPHA AND TEH OMEGA!!!! I DON'T NEED NO HELP WITH THEM!!!!! FUCK YOUR OPINIONS!!!!!!"
...and say I behave like a king? You are delusional on a scale not even I had anticipated.

And why are you criticising Renegade for what he puts on his site. If it was your site, and he started putting stuff up that you didn't want, then yes, you have reason to complain, but it's not your site. Renegade even says in his rules that he owns the domain and pays for this whole thing, so what he says goes, and he has a right to do that, whereas you do not, even if you are coding an exe-hacking project that has many modders (including myself) relying on it.

Even though this is true, it is in no way my reasoning or intention. I'm not forcing this through pointing at the WHOIS saying "Leave me alone or else..." (unlike certain other participants in this discussion) - I just don't see any logical reason to take that page down. It does not affect RockPatch at all. Heck, it wouldn't even be necessary, had Mr. VK decided to continue a simple numbering scheme.
But nooo, he had to stubbornly push his naming through, and is now pissed that we/I consider it so fucked up that an explanation page for newbies is necessary.
On the other hand, maybe he just wants to vanish all evidence, go on to 1.10, and pretend this fucked up naming scheme never happened...

[blackheartstar]

The way I see it the VKs revisions are no different from saying 1.05a, 1.05b, or 1.05c. They do not constitute a full version change. I know your argument for this is that he changed things that you consider new version worthy but he didnt.

He didnt but lets say he listed everything he had planned to accomplish with CE, and now everything appears to be working satisfactory. Since he listed his goals (once agian I know he didnt) of CE and now at the end of development they are done would you still insist that these changes you think are all so new version worth need new versions or do you let him call it CE?

Look at this thread for example he listed the main things he hoped to do in 1.10. Im sure (well up to this big fuss anyway) that we would see 1.10 revision #12, 1.10 revision #22, 1.10 revision #97. He will probably change a great many things not on that list, and also change things on his quest to complete 1.10 that are large and or major to the game. Does that mean where all this work is in the name of 1.10 on your list youer going to have it spand 3 different versions?

Rockpatch isnt the only place where odd number/name systems systems pop up. Out side of the Windows example Decoder brought up Castlevania after 1,2,3 only uses names where Final Fantasy games use numbers if even in the case of X where X-2 used two sets, but all of the new Final Fantasy VII endevors are names with no numbers (Advent Children/Dirge of Cerberus/Before Crisis/Crisis Core). Megaman 1-8 along side Megaman X-1-3 but X isnt ten. Mario 1,2,3,World,64,Sunshine this could go on and on. Yet nobody has a problem keeping up.


VK why is Rockpatch 1.10 still paused? If it really is RENs opinion on versioning thats bothering you to the point of pausing argue with or ignore him, but dont take it out on us the end users who really could careless about name/number structure.

[valcyrilestrada]

VK, Please try to work on canpassive aquire tag on aircrafttypes so that it can automatically target other aircraft within its sights. AACombat tag on 1.08SE is great but it will be better if it automatically targets and seks out enemy aircraft.

[Nighthawk]

This is neither the place nor the time for wishes!

[Renegade]

The way I see it the VKs revisions are no different from saying 1.05a, 1.05b, or 1.05c. They do not constitute a full version change. I know your argument for this is that he changed things that you consider new version worthy but he didnt.

He didnt but lets say he listed everything he had planned to accomplish with CE, and now everything appears to be working satisfactory. Since he listed his goals (once agian I know he didnt) of CE and now at the end of development they are done would you still insist that these changes you think are all so new version worth need new versions or do you let him call it CE?

Look at this thread for example he listed the main things he hoped to do in 1.10. Im sure (well up to this big fuss anyway) that we would see 1.10 revision #12, 1.10 revision #22, 1.10 revision #97. He will probably change a great many things not on that list, and also change things on his quest to complete 1.10 that are large and or major to the game. Does that mean where all this work is in the name of 1.10 on your list youer going to have it spand 3 different versions?

In all your ranting, you're missing an important point: I did not break on revisions. So far, I only increased the number when he changed the name: From 1.08 to 1.08 SE, from SE to CE, from CE to CE 74. In no situation I put a new version number in the middle of a release cycle.
In other words: It is no question that the release cycles begin/end where I put bold in the list. VK himself denoted them. The question is just whether I should map "real" version numbers to them, and, if yes, which version numbers.

(And to cut any lamers crying "But 1.08 SE is like 1.08b!!!" short:

1. What would that make 1.08 SE #0029? 1.08bb? 1.08c? It can't be c, it's still 1.08 SE, and 1.08 SE is like 1.08b, according to your logic? See the problem? Welcome to the world of VK's naming scheme.
   
2. Just because it's named "Second Edition" doesn't automatically mean it cannot be a standalone version. Think of Windows 98 SE. The differences to Win 98 were so grave that there was stuff that had 98 SE as a minimum requirement. So quit argumenting 1.08 SE must be 1.08 simply because it carries "1.08" in the title. By that logic, "1.10" is the second version released after "1.08". I don't know about you, but by my count, that doesn't quite work. Especially not if CE is not 1.09. But hey, VK's versioning scheme is "very clear and right", right?
   

)

Rockpatch isnt the only place where odd number/name systems systems pop up. Out side of the Windows example Decoder brought up Castlevania after 1,2,3 only uses names where Final Fantasy games use numbers if even in the case of X where X-2 used two sets, but all of the new Final Fantasy VII endevors are names with no numbers (Advent Children/Dirge of Cerberus/Before Crisis/Crisis Core). Mario 1,2,3,64 this could go on and on. Yet nobody has a problem keeping up.

I don't know much about FF, but let me tell you this: As an outsider, I shake my head whenever there's an announcement that "A new Final Fantasy VII" is gonna be released, when I know "Final Fantasy X" has been out for years. Just because a lot of people understand crap, that doesn't make it any less crap.
In addition, I was under the impression that Final Fantasy games are of different storylines on different platforms. So if only one series works for your platform anyway, and a game is only released every few years, it's not hard to keep up. Even an idiot could see that "The Final Fantasy VII released in 2006" is obviously older than "The Final Fantasy VII released in 2007".
Not to mention that Wikipedia seems to confirm my impression: The 2007 one is for PSP, while the 2006 one is for "Amp'd Mobile" and "Verizon", so it's probably a mobile phone game. There are two other FFVII mobile phone games, put none for the same "platform" - so, if there's only one exact game working for your platform, how can you get confused?
So...we have one FFVII for PSX, one for PSP, one for Verizon mobile phones, one for PS2, one for LG VX8000, LG VX8100, Audiovox 8940 and Samsung A890 mobile phones, and one for NTT DoCoMo i-Mode phones, Softbank Yahoo!Mobile phones and AU EZweb phones.
Now how the hell am I supposed to get confused if I had a PS2? There is only one FFVII for PS2! And if there were more, I'd only have to differ between "the one from 2006" and "the current one".
Compare that to RP:

• Celebration Edition Half Hundred
  
• Celebration Edition #0033
  
• 1.08 SE #0029
  

They're all for the same platform, for the same game, for the same patch version of that game. Now if you hadn't followed RP development, and RP:Versions wasn't up, how would you instinctively decide which one is the latest, or whether the latest one was even listed?

It's impossible, unless you either have a guide, or research by going through RockPatch News and check which thread was started last.

And I wrote that guide. Nothing more. One quick glance, and you can tell "Half Hundred" is the latest of those listed, but not the most recent one. Without having to keep up, without having to research. One glance. But noooooo, RockPatch:Version is teh evil and must go or VK won't continue. Because his versioning is sooooo much better.


P.S.: Same goes for Mario, btw: Mario 64 obviously was for Nintendo 64, so it was the only one you had to care about, and if you had an SNES, they were clearly numbered 1, 2, and 3, and the Nintendo 64 - Mario 64 connection was clear enough to not make you think you could play that. Can you say the same of CE 74? Do you automatically, instinctively know that the "74" does not refer to the revision ("CE #0051 - CE 74...hmm...must be build 74"), but to the Whiteboy Bug?
I think not.

VK, Please try to work on canpassive aquire tag on aircrafttypes so that it can automatically target other aircraft within its sights. AACombat tag on 1.08SE is great but it will be better if it automatically targets and seks out enemy aircraft.

Wishes → Wishlist, and you're rudely interrupting an important discussion.

Edit: Damn, Nighthawk beat me to it

[blackheartstar]

In a way you just made my point when you were able to find all the  platforms for FF7 sequals. You said you knew next to nothing about it and minutes later had enough info to argue a new side of the point. Another minute and you could have put them in sequence. If you can research that easily and fast why would you not expect a newbie to apply that much effort into researching a game patch history. If they even care that it has a history to begin with. If the rockpatch release sequence confonds somebody I imagine the .ini files would be to much for them.

[Electro]

*All SWs now support common tags like EVAActivated

Yeah right, my spy plane/airstrike clone can only use EVAReady. Well done you liar. And don't give me the thing from the RP help that says that spy plane clones can't have anything but EVAReady, as you said ALL SWs support the tags.

[Nighthawk]

*All SWs now support common tags like EVAActivated

Yeah right, my spy plane/airstrike clone can only use EVAReady. Well done you liar. And don't give me the thing from the RP help that says that spy plane clones can't have anything but EVAReady, as you said ALL SWs support the tags.

It's a development thread, this is neither out nor finished yet.

[Electro]

You are clearly mistaken Nighthawk200, I'm talking about RPCE #51. How can he move on if he's lying?

[VK]

Yeah right, my spy plane/airstrike clone can only use

EVAReady. Well done you liar. And don't give me the thing from the

RP help that says that spy plane clones can't have anything but

EVAReady, as you said ALL SWs support the tags.

Yes, all SWs except Chronosphere support all voices.

EvaReady=
EvaActivated=
works fine.

EvaDetected=
here small error: sometime this work, sometimes don't.
So wait RPCE #0052 & RPCE74 #0104
However for such things exist Bug Tracker.

Celebration Edition Half Hundred

What is it? I have never release this!

Ooh, you think renaming the bugfix-versions to "revisions"

is gonna save your ass here?

No, my revisions don't add new features
see status page (or better RP 1.03 help)

Code:

v1.04b [Bugfix release #1]:
- Add as many new ParaDrop SuperWeapons as you wish

1.05b [Bugfix release #1]:
- Add infinite Nuke clones

and else.

However, I found a another uncompatible thing:
PDominator SW.

RPCE don't changed it at all.
but look into RP 1.03 Help:

Code:

1.05:
- Add infite Psychic Dominator clones

DomRed=85 ;amount of red
DomGreen=20 ;amount of green
DomBlue=30 ;amount of blue
DomGround=0 ;no idea
DomLevel=0 ;again, no clue what this does
DomAmbientChangeRate=1 ;???
;1.06 Tags
DomLight=yes ;turns the special lighting on or off

but in RPCE you use Light=yes, LightRed, etc, isn't ?
Why?

Your version scheme is there

There a lot of different bullshit.
For example, noone should see there revisions, except start and last/final revision.

I want to underline, that if new version released, you should forgot about revisions for old versions.
In other words, RP 1.08 SE #0035 now simple RP 1.08 SE.
When I release RP 1.10, RPCE #0052 & RPCE74 #0104 become RPCE & RPCE74.
BTW, who don't like revision system, he can simplely wait, while next version RP released.
(So if don't like RPCE revisions, you should use RP 1.08 SE now, and when I release RP 1.10, start to use RPCE)

BTW, who add this stupid system:

Operation Bughouse Latest Bugs:
0000117: New "New String Tables" error

this bug appeared a month ago and was fixed a two days later

[Renegade]

In a way you just made my point when you were able to find all the platforms for FF7 sequals. You said you knew next to nothing about it and minutes later had enough info to argue a new side of the point. Another minute and you could have put them in sequence. If you can research that easily and fast why would you not expect a newbie to apply that much effort into researching a game patch history. If they even care that it has a history to begin with. If the rockpatch release sequence confonds somebody I imagine the .ini files would be to much for them.

Err...I think you're missing a detail there - it's the other way round. You're supporting me.
I found it out this quickly by looking it up on Wikipedia. That's the same as if a newb looked up VK's versions on ModEnc (it's even the same software).

Had Wikipedia not pages on every FFVII title in existence, I'd have had no idea where to find out which versions exist at all, let alone for which platform they are or when they were released. And the same thing will happen to newbs if RockPatch:Versions is gone. They'll sit in front of the names and have no idea where to go to look them up.

ModEnc is to YR and RockPatch what Wikipedia is to games in general. Just like my ability to quickly and instinctively look up a game's background stands or falls with the question whether or not there is a wikipedia page for it, the ability of a newb to comprehend VK's versioning scheme stands and falls with the question of whether or not a ModEnc page exists for it.
Just like I'd have to go on a 15-minute journey through Google had there not been conviently accessible pages for all FFVII titles on Wikipedia, a newb would have to go through all version-threads in the news to find out which was started last.

Quickly comprehending a complex versioning scheme is possible - if you have the necessary information to overview it. And for VK's versioning scheme, that necessary information is the very page he's trying to get rid of right here, right now. So if you really think it's a good thing I was able to learn everything there is to know about FFVII versions within two minutes, you better get behind me and do everything you can to protect RockPatch:Versions.

Everything below this line was added as an edit, because VK posted while I typed my original post:

Celebration Edition Half Hundred

What is it? I have never release this!

That was your name for the #0050 exe, before it conveniently disappeared from the server just now. I could, of course, get out the full-server backups to restore it, but I'm not gonna take the whole server down for your lame coverups. You're not worth the effort.

Nice one, gotta give you that.




...then again, I don't quite feel like letting you win...

...SO GO FUCK YOURSELF, MOTHERFUCKER:
   
That's from this thread everybody, posted by the man himself. I wouldn't vanish my own proof, so...where did the file go? Hmm...who else has access to RP on the download server...?

I hope this is a lesson to all those thinking VK is the good guy in this discussion. I'm not the one blackmailing the community and manipulating evidence here.

P.S.: We have backups, VK. Don't bother editing the post.

Ooh, you think renaming the bugfix-versions to "revisions"

is gonna save your ass here?

No, my revisions don't add new features
see status page (or better RP 1.03 help)

So, basically...the quote is right? Revisions are bugfix versions? What's your point?

Code:

v1.04b [Bugfix release #1]:
- Add as many new ParaDrop SuperWeapons as you wish

1.05b [Bugfix release #1]:
- Add infinite Nuke clones

and else.

However, I found a another uncompatible thing:
PDominator SW.

RPCE don't changed it at all.
but look into RP 1.03 Help:

Code:

1.05:
- Add infite Psychic Dominator clones

DomRed=85 ;amount of red
DomGreen=20 ;amount of green
DomBlue=30 ;amount of blue
DomGround=0 ;no idea
DomLevel=0 ;again, no clue what this does
DomAmbientChangeRate=1 ;???
;1.06 Tags
DomLight=yes ;turns the special lighting on or off

but in RPCE you use Light=yes, LightRed, etc, isn't ?
Why?

Was that directed at me? 'cause I have no idea what your point is.

Your version scheme is there

There a lot of different bullshit.
For example, noone should see there revisions, except start and last/final revision.

I want to underline, that if new version released, you should forgot about revisions for old versions.
In other words, RP 1.08 SE #0035 now simple RP 1.08 SE.
When I release RP 1.10, RPCE #0052 & RPCE74 #0104 become RPCE & RPCE74. [...]

What? Don't you like the idea that people might draw conclusions from the fact that pd only needed one or two bugfix releases, while you need dozens?
Might, of course, be related to the fact that he didn't release one a week, but actually tested his stuff.
Then again, we offered numerous times to help you beta-test the releases, but it's not like you care...


(The "real" reason for not getting rid of them is simple: If a newb found CE 74 #0102 somewhere, how would he know whether that's the latest CE 74, if Versions only lists "CE 74"?)

Oh, and by the way: While I was peacefully discussing here, uncovering VK's weak attempt at manipulating the evidence showing how crazy his numbering scheme is, he was over at ModEnc and vandalized RockPatch:Versions...again.
But hey...I'm the evil, arrogant one, right?

[Banshee]

I see jerk people. They don't know they are jerks.

Not offense intended here, but it's time to move on instead of killing yourselves for futile points. Don't you think?

[Renegade]

Why are you speaking generally? VK is the one who started this, VK is the one who's trying to blame me, VK is the one who keeps going, and VK is the one controlling the progress. I'm just showing people that he's the aggressor here, not me.