DFD: 668 vs. 948, 729 vs. 978

[Renegade]

DFD: Daily Feature Deathmatch

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The Cruel Fight For Implementation

This is a Daily Feature Deathmatch post. If you are unfamiliar with the background of this event, please read the announcement, the adjustment and the schedule.

Fight 1

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[0000668] Graphical stuff to make soldiers partially visible in trenches vs. [0000948] Mini map add-on

Fight 2

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[0000729] List of Red Alert 3 unit abilities to consider vs. [0000978] MindControl Priorities

After the fight is over, two of these issues will be suspended, while the other two move on to the next round.
Remember that the coders will not take part in the discussion, so make your arguments complete, concise and convincing - when it's over, it's over.

Part of that is clearly marking what outcome you support for which issue.
There should be no ambiguity in the issue you're talking about, and it should be clear what outcome you support. Feel free to put your stance in bold, and use simple terminology like "kill #69" or "I want #42 to survive".
This use of simple terminology should be part of a larger argumentation - if this is all your post consists of, it will be ignored. We are interested in argumentations and details to consider, not votes.

A decision will be made either way, a lack of discussion will not cause all issues to live.

Be friendly, be civil, be logical.
You are allowed to try to deconstruct the arguments of those arguing against your candidate, but remember that they don't make the call - there is really no point in getting personal.

The discussion should be contained in this thread, argumentations elsewhere will be ignored, but you are allowed to transfer and adapt points made elsewhere in the past.

We want a good, clean fight.
Let's get it on!

These fights are largely automatically generated - if an issue turns out to be unfit for combat, it will be disqualified and the opponent will go into the queue.

[Black Shadow 750]

I'm for 668, after all it's the bigger improvement.
I also support 978 since most of the 729 requests can be remade as I posted on the issue, whereas MindControl Priorities adds strategy and cannot be emulated.

Also, to clarify 978:
A stronger link can override a weaker link
A link can only be formed with a weaker mind

[Beowulf]

#668 for sure. Would make for killer eye-candy, and make trenches that much awesomer.

Not a fan of #978. #729 gets my vote. There are some very interesting ideas present in RA3 that would work EQUALLY well in YR. Surely some of them would have easy implementation. The amount of things that could be done with the logic from RA3 is amazing, but it doesn't have just emulate RA3 precisely. The ideas are what counts and silly is what reigns in RA2 and RA3.

[Renegade]

Administrative Notice:

#668 is a tracking bug of mine and shouldn't have appeared here. Blame the automation. In accordance with the rules, it was disqualified and #948 survives by default.

[RandomNutjob]

I back 978 as reading through the RA3 stuff I found most could probably be done anyhow and I kinda like the hierarchy that could be established between mind controllers

[Blade]

Not a fan of #978. #729 gets my vote. There are some very interesting ideas present in RA3 that would work EQUALLY well in YR. Surely some of them would have easy implementation. The amount of things that could be done with the logic from RA3 is amazing, but it doesn't have just emulate RA3 precisely. The ideas are what counts and silly is what reigns in RA2 and RA3.

While I am not a fan of the MC priorities either, the RA3 thing is a meta feature request with several seperate features that should all have been submitted seperately to survive or die on their own merits, some of which can already be done. IMO it should loose by default and seperate requests for the stuff that can't be done submitted with MC Priorities going through to at least the next round where it hopefully faces defeat against something more deserving.

[MRMIdAS]

[0000729] although the features should be split, there's lots of good ideas and logics here that deserve to survive.

[Nighthawk]

For fight one:
Well, it's a non-argument since #948 has won by default. That said, I am personally not a fan of it.

For fight two:
For a start, I think that the first issue should definitely have been broken up into several smaller ones - the issue as its stands is too umbrella-like in its requests, asking very much all at once. Personally, I'm not a major fan of RA3, so a lot of these logics have little appeal to me. Many of them can also be worked around in some way in YR and with the current Ares options, some are merely more colourful ways of expressing bugs in the YR engine (such as turrets not disguising with tank bodies), whereas some are just things that I think would probably be a major pain to implement for all of the little gain it'll result in.

The second issue, on the other hand, is a much simpler request that actually makes a lot of sense. Why shouldn't a more powerful psychic be able to control a unit better than its subordinates? A use for this could be with units that are currently immune to psionics. Sure, a Yuri Clone or Psi Commando may not have the brainpower to take them over, but what's to stop a Yuri Prime, the mastermind of the entire psychic army, who can already take over buildings with a single bound, from mind controlling a small dog? It could also lead to the interesting scenario where a Yuri Prime could out-psychic an enemy Yuri Clone, and end up mind controlling it.

So, overall I think issue #729 is too large and convoluted to be considered for implementation as a whole, whereas issue #978 could provide some simple and straightforward improvements. Therefore, my stance is support #978, kill #729.

[Lt Albrecht]

personally, I'm not a major fan of RA3

Me neither, so let us unashamedly rip what was good out of it using a knife inscribed with 'Blood and Retcons' and move on. Personally I'd like the guardian tank's ability and other people might have use for the rest. But the guardian's ability is basically just the avenger from Gens anyway...

[AlphaBravo]

I'm supporting 729. Along with my #1042 (which HOPEFULLY gets included), it will be a major extension to YR+Ares Play. However, 729 WITHOUT 1042 is severely limited. So, if 1042 wins, Support 729. Else, support 978.

[Renegade]

Administrative Notice:

Given that there have been no new posts in almost three days, it is assumed this discussion is finished; we will proceed to consider the arguments.

[Renegade]

I would like a pony, and a firetruck, and a dragon, and a Porsche, and a--- oh, sorry, I was typing my own neverending list of wishes.

I'm following Blade's and Nighthawk's argumentation.

Kill: #729
Support: #978

[AlexB]

Fight 2
Really: I wouldn't know what to do about the RA3 issue. There's just so much stuff to have fun for half a year. And nobody really knows which features are wanted and which features are just mentioned because RA3 has them.

Mind Control priorities aren't great, but YR already has them to some extent: The Psychic Dominator can recapture Mind Controlled units already. This is just a small extension compared to "Reimplement RA3!".

[Renegade]

Result:

Survivor #978, and #948 moves on by default.
(...theoretically. In practice, #948 has been closed as won't fix due to lack of support by now.)