Multiple non-conflicting mods

[Bobingabout]

well, I'd go with copy all files in the folder. R:ROTC has always been in a compiled state, with the exception of a few ini files, i would want to have to extract all those files just so a program at the launcher end can re-compile them. i actually think this will probably be easiest for most people.

although, i think mix generation could be offered.

[Renegade]

I still vote for just making it read .xcml files. They already are a packaging format for exactly the information you want to pack, they are supported by a widely-spread distribution compiler, and the user has the possibility to export a seperate .exe for people who don't want or can't use the new system. (What are the software-side requirements for you program? Do we have to fear stuff like Windows X.P SP2 + .NET 2.0 or something?)

I also vote for A, compilation into mixes, for several reasons:

• Folder-copying and free files are just messy
  
• We didn't analyze .mixes, compiled tools and tutorials and taught newbs about .mixes for years just to say "you know what? fuck this shit." now and just put it in the folder.
  
• Security-reasons/promotional aspects: Fear of content theft was big enough to have people write an extra mix compiler whose products are supposed to be inaccessable by the Mixer; do you think your program will find wide-spread adoption if the modder's hard work just lies around in the ripper's folder, ready for his taking?
  

[Marshall]

I fully understand the issues you have described. My point was more about whether or not the Launch Base should support the copying of loose files - not insist upon it - so that a developer doesn't have to re-mix their mod constantly during testing.

I think that the install-maker should at least have the option of mixing files and possibly insisting on it. However, any mix generation will require a dll, software module or command line tool.

The other option, as Renegade suggested, is to have a single archive file that Launch Base can read, rather than leaving the modfiles laid bare.
I'm happy to read xcml files, but I don't know how - if someone can guide me on how to read this file type and extract the neccessary files and info then this would be possible. Otherwise, I will look at my own format for such files.

Launch Options:
A) copy loose
B) compile into mixes
C) extract from single archive file

Installer Options:
A) install loose
B) compile into mixes
C) compile into single archive file

[Bobingabout]

XCC tools is completly OS, you should be able to have a look at XCC Mix Editor or XCC mod launcher code to get information about generating mix files, and XCC mod launcher for the XCML files generator and extractor.

[DCoder]

And finally, if any mix file generation is required then I'm going to need something like DCoder's audio.bag/idx dll but for mix files. I wonder if DCoder would be able to offer his skills once more or if I'm making too many cheeky requests. I also haven't broached the subject of CSF files yet...

Nah, not too many. After all, I have to code stuff for Uni anyway, I might as well make it useful. MIX generation, I would need a fair amount of time to get that one working, but then the LeechKiller code could be integrated as well and toggled by a simple checkbox. CSF construction should be as easy as bag/idx.

I'm happy to read xcml files, but I don't know how - if someone can guide me on how to read this file type and extract the neccessary files and info then this would be possible.

They are just XIF files. Those are Olaf's proprietary format, the only way to figure it out is to read Olaf's source codes. Sourceforge does provide anonymous read access to their CVS, but understanding the code itself can be difficult.

Installer Options:
A) install loose
B) compile into mixes
C) compile into single archive file

Let the author choose, with default to B, then the Launch Base can just copy those without wasting time on generating them each time.

Launch Options:
A) copy loose
B) compile into mixes
C) extract from single archive file

A, copy loose files (including Installer-created mixes) - it should work even if the modder left the stuff loose in the folder, e.g. the mod is in active development and testing state and the files are constantly shuffled and modified.

[Renegade]

C + C&B - Mod Creator/Launcher style.

Compiling into mixes on installer compilation doesn't take .csf, .bag, .idx, videos etc. into account.

[Marshall]

If there is to be mix generation then I think this should be handled by the install-maker. Then the files can always be copied loose by Launch Base (Launch BAse doesn't have to have mix generation capability but the install-maker does).

I feel that single archive files are not a good idea because:
Benefit: improved security, however users can still alt-tab out of YR to get at the files.
Drawback: Takes longer to activate mod because I have to extract the files before moving them to the RA2 folder (to ensure nothing is overwritten without backing up first).
Drawback: Extra complexity in the install-maker interface.
Drawback: Extra complexity in program code - will take me longer to complete the programs and increase the risk of errors.

As for xcml files, it may be hard for me to incorporate them and carries the same drawbacks as above. Further more, Launch Base will still require a liblist.gam so I would have to include even more code to detect and read xcml files as a separate procedure to the standard way.
It seems to me that reading xcml files is far more trouble than it is worth.

If DCoder can include the LeechKiller mix protection in a mix generator dll as an option then that should provide sufficient security.
However, if anyone disagrees with the above points about single archive files then please say.

[VK]

I think, better to use .yrmode (for example) file type:
.yrmod example:

Code:

[General]
Name=CnCVK's mod
WebSite=www.cncvkmod.net
NeedTX=true
NeedRP=true
NeedRPVersion=1.08
Version=1.00

[ReadMe]
1=Sample text
2=End of sample text

[Install]
InstallTitle=CnCVK's mod install
InstallFrom=Mod_Files
NeedDiskSpace=10240

When you click on this file, you see mods installer

[Marshall]

That's essentially what liblist.gam contains, but rather than clicking on a file to load the mod, Launch Base shows a list of all available mods for you to view the info and select the mod you want.

[DCoder]

But telling Windows to open .gam in Launch Base automatically isn't that difficult

[Renegade]

Single archive and xcml support are not questions of security...they are questions of user convenience.

If I have the choice between giving my users a single .xcml or .exe and a readme.txt, or an expandmd01.mix, an ecachemd01.mix, a ra2md.csf, maybe a creditsmd.txt if it doesn't work inside the mixes, and, not to forget, the ever so popular 50 MB audio.bag + idx, and knowing that every missing file is a possible reason to have stupid n00bs spamming my forums with "omfg it says missing:name:renscannon why does it do that help", I very much opt for the single, automatically extracted archive.

I have compiled mixes and distributed mods by hand before. Everything that forces me to basically go back to that, cannot be worth it.
And that's only my side. Why would I want to force my users to have another folder in their already growing list of mod folders, and more moving back and forth of data on their hard drive (slowly fragmenting it to hell), when I know I can offer them a single .exe in which they just have to click "mod", and everything is done for them automatically?

XCC Mod Creator and Launcher have a convenience level almost unbeatable for both modders and players. Anything involving more complexity than these two is bound to have a hard stand in the community, no matter the advantage of a mod database.

Combine XCMC/L's convenience with the advanced features proposed, and there'll be no reason for anyone not to migrate. Fall back to 2001's mixes, loose files and manual package compilation, and no one can be arsed to convert their current project.

[Marshall]

@DCoder
Rather than an associated file type, I may add a command line switch to automatically launch a specific mod folder - users can then create shortcuts to installed mods.

@Renegade
I understand your points however I believe the following counter-points are relevant:
I completely agree that distributing multiple files (say, inside a zip file) is destined to cause confusion and error among many, I would never praise the distribution of mods in this way. The install-maker would create executable installers that automatically place the files in the appropriate place, and all within a folder dedicated to that mod.
As for cluttering up the RA2 folder - the mods could just as easily be installed as subfolders within the Launch Base directory instead. In fact I think I prefer this idea as opposed to installing to the RA2 folder.
I may support both options - Launch Base could scan subfolders of RA2 and of itself.
As for moving data back and forth - all data would be copied [not moved] and then deleted, but how is this any different to a single archive? The files still have to be extracted and then deleted so as far as fragmentaion is concerned there is no change.

Convenience -
Having a central launching platform for YR, plugins and mods offers tremendous convenience - no cluttering up start menus or desktops with countless shortcuts, and no file management required on the part of the user.
For the author, the install-maker is essentially the XCC Mod Creator equivalent, one will be able to convert their mod in just a few minutes. Launch Base has only one extra step beyond that of a stand-alone executable mod (and that step is clicking on the mod you want from the list).
Going back to the issue of data movement, I plan to include options of Persistant Mod (not deleting a mod until a different mod is run) and Audio Bag saving (saves compiled Audio.bags so they don't have to be generated every time). These two options make a mod load much quicker the next time you play it.
The whole point of Launch Base is that everything is automated and multiple mods (and plugins) can be handled easily without worrying about residual files.
The great thing about Launch Base, will be that it won't get broken by existing mod launching methods (although you will have to turn Persistant Mods off).

[Bobingabout]

maybe a creditsmd.txt if it doesn't work inside the mixes

it doesn't work in mix files.

[Blade]

Just out of interest, how does moving files cause disk fragmentation? All its doing is changing the pointers to the file to point to a new directory, the data stays where it is on the HD.

[Bobingabout]

he's right. unless its from a different drive/partition.