The end of Rock Patch

[OmegaBolt]

but there be need for more than RS...not all my projects are known.

Indeed.

Well I will have to zip it then. I like the way this topic turned out.

[MCV]

In Reply To: all People who talk about "distribution licence" and "copyright"

Let's look at this shall we?
Renegade is German (IIRC) and presumably uses a German server, and VK is Russian. The patch was released on a German server, meaning it was released to all countries in the world at the same time due to the connection to the Internet. This means that I, living in Norway, have to abide by Norwegian law.

This means that as long as I can classify the Marshall's installer as Independent, it is not illegal for me to use the Rock Patch.

Further, I can per Norwegian Law change the 1.07b installer to allow TFD, and I could distribute this program.

As I abide by Norwegian Law, PD, VK, jonwil and Marshall has the right to revoke the right to use the Rock Patch at any time, even without making another patch.

I don't know wherether Marshall's patcher is Independent; How do you classify a patch?

Anyway, the bottom line about distribution are:

1. In which cases does laws concerning distribution apply? Do they apply for a program distributed on a German server?
   
2. What does your law state about distribution? Can VK revoke the right to 1.10 in your country? If not, do you have the right to distribute it?
   

Be sure to find the definite answers to these if you want to distribute the 1.10 patch yourself.

(Myself, I am neither allowed by law, nor would I release it without VK's concent.)

[TX1138]

Is the RockPatch copyrighted? Because if it isn't, then under the Copyright Act 1968 - Sect 116C, the Australian Law says that as long as VK has cancelled work on 1.10, I can distribute it without his permission

[VK]

32 sides (not countries, sides)

false

this also?
Sometimes VK add future without I even know it like SuperAnim tag

100 UnitType bug -> to 200 UnitType limit (this is AI limit however)

Under what distribution license was distributed RockPach all this time?

I don't know.
However, you can use it only after permit from all coders.

But I still have RP 1.10 0036  So I'm happy

must delete it now.
why? the copyright law.

Now, for those interested on a new engine, check this out:

however this 3D engine project.

RP releases never had any type of text explaining what "Terms of use" and "distribution" limitations...
...BUT in the past RP still was possible re-distribute RockPatch with mods (I remember VK words about incompatibility between RP versions & his solution about zip the specific RP version with the mod)... so last released version of RockPatch can be able to be re-distributed with mods exactly like older versions because developers (in this case only VK) don't changed they opinion about "re-distributions" of RP BEFORE the last release... that VK will not distribute the last revision RP 1.10 into the RP website don't say that we can't continue zipping the required version of RP with our mod due to the latest "Terms of use & distribution"... except if he releases a new version (this new version can to have no new changes/fixes, directly a copy of the last version but renamed to have a bigger version number) that explicitly changes the "Terms of use & distribution"... then if someone want use the last last last version must use RP due to the new "Terms of use & distribution"

This is only a words however.

More than that, the RP is a derivative work of YR so technically the copyright still belongs to EA.

not right.
What is Rock Patch?
It just installer/patcher program.
Yes, it was created by PD,JONWILL,VK.
You can patch any file: TXT, SNO, EXE, DOC.
But if you patch GAMEMD.EXE YOU breaks EULA, but not coders.
Installer/patcher is only a tool.
The same as a knife.
While you don't kill anybody, police won't take you in the prison.
Rock Patch is the same as a knife however.

...currently in the last revision #0036 only "EMPulse SW" had to fix 2 reported bugs about the rangered weapons: when you clicks in the minimap & AI ignores weapon range... but no developers are available

and no EMPulse SW available.
Forgot about RP 1.10.

VK from what I understand, you said that RP CE will also be not available (along with 1.10)? or be available only for Mental Omega? My mod has been completed but requires RPCE (personally I don't care about 1.10 as I have no more intentions to add more features).

I will think about it, and probably re-release RP 1.10 as SP 1 or as EYR 1 or as EYR 2.0.
This project will have a hard rules, create by me & communty .

Shame that it had to come to a stop like this, but it's VK's decision and I respect it.
I would not talk about "the end" though.

there nothing be not written about fate of the code in Rock Patch.
Rock Patch is closed, because PD no longer want to see brand "Rock Patch" with my development.
Yes, this is his right as creator of patch.
But this doesn't mean, what I won't try to repair this shit.


But this no longer will be "Rock Patch", just "Extended Yuri's Revenge" or "Swizzle Patch" or "Engine Extender" or "Fate Patch"
... I have a lot of  different funny names.

In the nearest thread, you can choose new project name which you like from a list.
BTW a development stopped till 01.07.07.
The reason: I tired from this.

@VK:
My engine can load and display csf, ini, pal, shp (with shadows and remap), tmp and yrm files at its current state. It is based on SDL and OpenGL.
If you like, I can send my current source to you, maybe it can speed up things significantly.
I suppose you want to work with DirectX. Porting my OpenGL engine to DirectX shoudln't be too hard, as I use OpenGL for drawing and positioning only (code parts that can easily be adapted).

at first we should set a plan.

I suppose you want to work with DirectX

my idea: to use universal code.
For example in my project ("Swizzle Engine") I have two types of surfaces:
MSurface (Memory Surface)
DSurface (Direct Draw Surface)
both classes derived from abstract Surface class.
we can add OSurface (OpenGL Surface) class for example.
For code doesn't matter, what class you use: MSurface, DSurface or OSurface.

Code:

pBACKBUFFER.Blt(pSIDEBAR, ScreenWidth - pSIDEBAR.Width(), ScreenHeight, 0, false);

I suggest don't use old YR file formats.
For example instead of YR MIX file format, we can create a new format:
*Copyprotected - only professional hackers can extract files from it
*With compression - LZMA compression
*Other features, like folders

Also I planned to use updated YR engine scheme, because it really work.

[TX1138]

But I still have RP 1.10 0036  So I'm happy

must delete it now.
why? the copyright law.

No thanks I'm quite happy having it on my Hard Drive thank you very much And if you try and hack into my computer to delete it, tough luck I have it on my USB drive and on my computer at school And hacking into my computer would be worse than me simply having a file on my Hard Drive

[Kiith-Sa]

It's raining engines . I give the biggest chance to Judeau's engine, however.
Any possibility of making your engine/s OS, pd, vk?
BTW, why take additional effort to support both DirectX and OpenGL when OpenGL already runs everywhere?

[Blade]

However, you can use it only after permit from all coders.

And we already have that as a result of the fact it was released and was available, no matter how short a time it was. There are instances where companies have put up their programs under GPL for download and then changed their minds days later... too late, the program was already out under the GPL and the licence for that version as it was release COULD NOT be revoked by the copyright holder. This is probably a grey area however since specific terms of distribution and use for the RP were never explicitly stated and we would have to go by comments made on these and other forums to determine intended terms. I'd say that until your explicit statement that distribution was cancelled, we would have to have gone by your previous statements that we can distribute patches with our mods if the version we need is no longer available. All this will of course be moot if the patch is going to be released and continued under another name and that will make this name change business more akin to a trademark dispute rather than one of copyright.
IANAL of course so don't take any of this to be sound legal advice, its just my understanding of it and may vary depending on jurisdiction.
At the end of the day though, other than complaining at those who do continue to distribute, what action could really be taken against them? It would be pointless to try and bring a lawsuit as EA would stamp it down in seconds and all that really leave is going vigilante and hacking servers to stop it which would bring criticism from the community and not support.

[FS-21]

First of all, VK, I'm not replying against you and your decisions but I speak about laws and all people must obey the laws...

Under what distribution license was distributed RockPach all this time?

I don't know.
However, you can use it only after permit from all coders.

Yesssssss but... all people had permission to download & redistribute RockPatch until your last release... as I said you want change the rules? release a new version without nothing new and declare it not downloadable for nobody (but remember that any type of rules must respect the laws, some EULAs can be ilegal because they break the laws)
As Blade said "you cannot retroactively change the licence that something is released under".

But I still have RP 1.10 0036 So I'm happy

must delete it now.
why? the copyright law.

Same answer of before, people had the right to copy RockPatch ("right" to "copy"... ohh "copyright") until that version, zipping the installer with the desired mod...

RP releases never had any type of text explaining what "Terms of use" and "distribution" limitations...
...BUT in the past RP still was possible re-distribute RockPatch with mods (I remember VK words about incompatibility between RP versions & his solution about zip the specific RP version with the mod)... so last released version of RockPatch can be able to be re-distributed with mods exactly like older versions because developers (in this case only VK) don't changed they opinion about "re-distributions" of RP BEFORE the last release... that VK will not distribute the last revision RP 1.10 into the RP website don't say that we can't continue zipping the required version of RP with our mod due to the latest "Terms of use & distribution"... except if he releases a new version (this new version can to have no new changes/fixes, directly a copy of the last version but renamed to have a bigger version number) that explicitly changes the "Terms of use & distribution"... then if someone want use the last last last version must use RP due to the new "Terms of use & distribution"

This is only a words however.

Copyright are words howerver, laws are words however...

More than that, the RP is a derivative work of YR so technically the copyright still belongs to EA.

not right.

Sorry but this is 100% right, RockPatch is a derivated work of an existing copyrighted work (in this case Yuri's Revenge, the same for your Extended Tiberian Sun)

What is Rock Patch?
It just installer/patcher program.
Yes, it was created by PD,JONWILL,VK.
You can patch any file: TXT, SNO, EXE, DOC.
But if you patch GAMEMD.EXE YOU breaks EULA, but not coders.
Installer/patcher is only a tool.
The same as a knife.
While you don't kill anybody, police won't take you in the prison.
Rock Patch is the same as a knife however.

PD had authorization from EA (the owners of the EULA) to continue patching Yuri's Revenge with his project RockPatch.

...currently in the last revision #0036 only "EMPulse SW" had to fix 2 reported bugs about the rangered weapons: when you clicks in the minimap & AI ignores weapon range... but no developers are available

and no EMPulse SW available.
Forgot about RP 1.10.

Forget download about 1.10 in the official site but as I said in the first thing you can't revoke a license of distribution after release it and bla bla bla...

I will think about it, and probably re-release RP 1.10 as SP 1 or as EYR 1 or as EYR 2.0.
This project will have a hard rules, create by me & communty .

As I said you can re-release a program with your new terms of use and distribution but older versions can't be modified thos terms

[Renegade]

As much as I'd like to help you...RP isn't GPL'd. It wasn't released with a licensed that expressedly allows redestribution. And without any express statement from VK that redistribution is/was allowed (somebody would have to check the archives), the distribution model is more like him giving out usage licenses.

Really, somebody should check older posts to see what else he said about distribution.

EDIT, because FS jumped in between:

More than that, the RP is a derivative work of YR so technically the copyright still belongs to EA.

not right.

Sorry but this is 100% right, RockPatch is a derivated work of an existing copyrighted work (in this case Yuri's Revenge, the same for your Extended Tiberian Sun)

Again, as much as I'd like to help, that is not "100% right". The copyright of code belongs (unless you're in the US and get fucked in the ass) to the person who coded it. So EA holds a copyright on the majority of the exe, pd small parts, and VK a large portion of the patch.

The patch is technically illegal because it is a derivative work (violates the EULA), but the fact that it is a derivative of an EA product does not automatically turn VK's code into EA's.

[FS-21]

Then 51%

...And without any express statement from VK that redistribution is/was allowed (somebody would have to check the archives), the distribution model is more like him giving out usage licenses.

Really, somebody should check older posts to see what else he said about distribution.

VK talked about each modder should distribute the right RP version for each mod when VK and Bobingabout discussed about incompatibility between versions when RPCE was released or when RP 1.08 SE was released... a bit luck I could find it

Edited

[MCV]

Now where was I...

Which country do you come from FS-21?
We need to know such things.

According to the laws of your country, does the RP fall under your countrys Copyright laws?

[Bobingabout]

But I still have RP 1.10 0036 So I'm happy

must delete it now.
why? the copyright law.

if you did not register this copyright with the UK copyright office, which you couldn't do because of this

The patch is technically illegal because it is a derivative work (violates the EULA)

then i break no laws re-distributing it, the only law to stop me would be to report me for distributing wares(or a EULA Violation), in which case you could be fined aswell because you coded it. hahahahahaha!

i think i'll stick to RPCE#55 anyway, and you can't stop that because it was released before you pulled the plug.

[TX1138]

[Renegade]

if you did not register this copyright with the UK copyright office, which you couldn't do because of this

The patch is technically illegal because it is a derivative work (violates the EULA)

then i break no laws re-distributing it. hahahahahaha!

[...]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_l...ed_Kingdom

British law states that an individual's work is placed under copyright law as soon as it leaves that person's mind and is placed in some physical form, be it a painting, a musical work written in manuscript or an architectural schematic. Once in physical form, as long as it is an original work (in the sense of not having been copied from an existing work, rather than in the sense of being novel or unique), copyright in that work is automatically vested in (i.e. owned by) the person who put the concept into material form.

Edit, since bob edited:
You're missing the point. You are in violation of copyright law because you illegally distribute his code (if there is no notice in the archives stating that you are allowed to do that). EA knows about RockPatch, and, as far as I know, doesn't care for it.

[Bobingabout]

hmmmm, still technically comes under hacked, or wares beacuse of the eula violation, and therefore can't be copyright.

You're missing the point. You are in violation of copyright law because you illegally distribute his code (if there is no notice in the archives stating that you are allowed to do that). EA knows about RockPatch, and, as far as I know, doesn't care for it.

good luck enforcing it.

anyway, i did say i'd stick with RPCE, and is still available in the currently released version of R:ROTC, you already cleared speeder to re-distribute it with MO, why should he get special treatment when there are other mods that depend on it as much.

anyway, if you plan to re-write the entire engine, then you are most likely wasting your time. why? PD already started this once, and quit, and i can understand why, OTTD, a far simpler game, took an entire year of coding before it got to a playable state. and, have you seen the TS re-write project? they've been even longer.