Rock Patch 1.10 development thread

[Renegade]

When you frist posted the unoffical version VK changed it to be the offical page. Instead of letting it be (since it was offical) or splitting it there you deleted it re ordering it into the unoffical vision you wanted. Now after he made his own seperate offical page you let it be.
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Do you count it as vandalization every time somebody edits there? It is a publicly editable wiki after all. It was the versions page of the patch hes working on. You put up a unoffical he changed it to offical. You where both doing the same thing only you own it and can choose what goes and what dosent in the end. As you have proved once again buy merging them together. Buy this Im not implying you should take it down or change it or that your wrong Im just giving a pov. VK was wrong to continue editing after the ban but to him your a random guy spreding what he sees as fauls info about his work.
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The crime you depict is much worse than some coder changing a list of his releases to be his offical release sequence on a publicly editable wiki page. When somebody he is probably looking at as a random guy keeps changeing it back. He was techincly doing the exact thing you where converting it back. Its easy to forget that this is actual ownd by you thus the content can be decided by you.
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You are, either willfully or out of ignorance (in the neutral meaning), misinterpreting what I and what he was doing.
He did not just edit the page. Maybe this is not obvious to you, but there are two kinds of edits on a wiki: Progressive and destructive ones. Had he discussed the edits beforehand, and there had been consent that the edit should be performed that way, it would have been a progressive edit - moving the page forward to the next stage in its evolution. No problem with that, and exactly what I did later (only that I didn't need to discuss it first, because I didn't remove any information - I only added and rephrased). What VK did was destructive editing - he simply removed information, without any explanation. And it is general policy, both on ModEnc as well as other wikis to revert such edits. Simply because there is no way of knowing why the information in question was removed, or if the community consents with the removal.

Let me re-emphasize the point here: I added his information to the page. He removed my information from the page. Without explanation or general consent. That is the important difference.

No your making your side sound just, good, and right. Any view thats not yours is a bad thing. Its a more subtle form of manipulation. Your not blackmailing or threatening/strong arming you are manipulating through your wording. Kinda like a politican running for office who disputes his runningmate postion with politely worded slander.
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I said your own brand of propaganda not that you were working on the same level as VK, but now that you mention it his whole king ren prop campaign is very similar to your own god vk prop campaign. As I said the refferences to terrorism make it sound like to people running for mayor. VK with less tact and threats / you with the silver tongue.
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You keep on saying that, but I have yet to see any proof or example?
Is stopping development to force me to delete valid content not "bad"?
Is resisting such aggressions to not set a precedent for further repercussions not "good"?

By putting RP on hold for everybody, VK is punishing the entire community for his childish little dislike with my version mapping - a version mapping his own, stupid declarations of "the version between 1.08 and 1.10 is not 1.09" made necessary.
I merely don't comply with groundless orders to delete content on my server.

You can twist and turn this as you want, but I still don't see how my behavior is in any way "bad" or like VK's. It shouldn't even require any kind of "propaganda" to justify having to desire to delete content just because some stranger wants you to.
As mentioned before: No other site would comply with this. How is it "propaganda" if I don't, either?


("No other site" assumes that the owner of that site owner is not impressed by VK's threats either. People who's entire site depends on RP (e.g. RP mod sites) might comply...but then we're back at VK's doings being blackmail, which still makes him the offender, and the site owner the victim.)

I have yet to see someone 100% agree with your number scheme, but they agree VKs could be better. I had my view on the talk page of you version you and bobing disagreed with it then blade and marshal posted here with alternative views of how it should/could look in case you need examples of yours not being diffenitive. The counterdiction of opinion comes in on a form of value system. They disagree with VK but the object of disagreement is trivial and not worth all of this. Not that they have been bent to his will just that in the end they dont care.

And, conveniently, you ignore that, just as announced as probably necessary on the original page, I just yesterday updated the naming scheme, and come close to what both you and bob said on the talk page.

This is what I'm talking about the entire time. Consent. Go check the current page. See if you still don't agree with it. If not, leave a message on the talk page, we'll discuss it further. No problem, and just as I announced in the notes section of the very first revision.

It's not my fault it's hard to match a reasonable numbering scheme to a futile versioning scheme. I still think the changes in SE and CE74 would warrant their own versions...we just don't have any numbers left.

Looking at that first paragraph
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You dont see any of this as being abit offenceive to VK? If this was written about yourself instead of VK would you not take it badly? Once again its all in the wording where you didnt say anything horrible the general gest of it does down play VK. Where VK had no right to say any of his countless instances of slander you through the first stone in that bout. Just becouse its on a higher level dosent discount the fact it was said. Heck he is so cought up the the version scheme that he probably never even pickedup on any of it.

What is, from a versioning point of view, the meaning of "Celebration Edition"? Is it the first version? The last? The one made by a guy named "Celebration"? In context of events surrounding its release date, it may have been accurate to call it a celebration edition.
But in the general context of all other RP-versions, "Celebration Edition", "Celebration Edition 74", "Summer Edition" and "Hells Edition" are most definitely meaningless. They convey no useful versioning information whatsoever. So as offensive as you might want to interpret this, "meaningless" is exactly the right word to describe these names.

As for the repetition: There have been three 1.05s and three 1.04s by pd. There have been thirteen "Celebration Editions" by VK. And that doesn't take into account that of 22 characters in "Celebration Edition 74", 19 are equal to the previous name, and the added number not only conveys no versioning information again, but actually confuses by looking like proper versioning, but actually referring to a totally different topic.

"Meaningless" and "repetitive" are accurate descriptions of VK's naming scheme. They may not sound nice, but that doesn't change their accuracy. If his system wasn't meaningless and repetitive, I'd have no reason to call it that. So if he doesn't like it, it's in his power to give his future names meaning.

(Actually, that's not even necessary...I myself am a great fan of code names, too. "Feisty Fawn" ftw. But not as a replacement for proper versioning. A simple "RockPatch 1.09 ('Celebration Edition')" would do the trick. But nooooooo - "CE IS NOT 1.09!!! BURN IN HELL!! YOU GET NO SUPPORT!!! RAH!! RAAAAAAAH!!!". :roll: )

I myself do not understand VKs constant downplay of PD. He says he means no offence when confronted about it sometimes before he even writes it ,but it always comes out that way. It could be language problem but who knows. I would discuss this with him just as we have been here but he doesnt allow for that.

..."language problem"? You blame constant disrespect of pd on "language problems"?

I dont see how anyone can actualy feel threatened by this.

The point is not whether anybody feels threatened by it, but whether he actually does threaten us/you.

If somebody pointed a gun at you and said "I'll shoot you if you don't give me your money!" he threatened you. Period. No matter if you feel threatened by it or not.

And actually, The Man's post above shows the fear quite well. "No matter whether what VK does is right or wrong, no matter whether you're right, Ren - COMPLY, GODDAMNIT!"
"They" will support anything that pressures me into complying with VK's wishes. Simply because VK is telling them alternative is the loss of RockPatch, and they don't want that. Hostage-taking, blackmail, terrorism - whatever it is, it's executed perfectly. (Well, almost...there's no loot for him.)

If he stops well guess what hes not taking RPCE with him. [...]
If he stops he stops I'll take RPCE and run with it as plenty has been added already.[...]

I halfly agree with you. This may or may not be a surprise, but we have actually...err..."talked" <_< about a situation where VK leaves, and I think it'd be best to continue with 1.08 - VK may have done a lot in the meantime, but do you really want to give him a chance to claim copyright and whatnot?

Either way, if that case ever occurs, as ridiculous as that thought may seem to you right at the moment, please talk to me about hosting. I am confident, even given your major disagrees with me in this discussion, that you see that I did not interfere at any point in time with RockPatch's development or hosting...so there'd be no reason to move somewhere else, turn all links useless, and require excessive re-learning in the community, just because I have an opinion on VK's version names.

As I said, you might find the thought ridiculous right now, but please consider it, should you take over. I'm really not as bad as VK tries to make me look. ;)

No not at all, and I'll say I belive you get more flak out of this just becouse your open to disscus things where VK is not. People may very well have some words for VK but he doesnt present himself enough or in a way to properly convay them.
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I think more people would disscus complaints with VK in this same manner we are currently disscusing things with you if VK would actualy reply and explain himself. As I said thats why you get more of the flak than he does becouse you actual talk back which I find to be very cool :)
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The fact that you realize that speaks for you, but it doesn't change the fact that I'll have to keep defending myself, while he is the one who started this and puts pressure on everybody -_-

Attacking me simply because VK isn't there isn't exactly a nice thing to do.




Bah, can't be arsed to re-read everything...TV is on.