User Patch <-> Mod Patch

[gordon-creAtive]

Looking over the wishlist and reviewing changelog of RP1/NP I noticed that always two different aspects of engine were improved/were asked to improve: The "user" side of the engine, which means AI enhancements, small GUI improvements, reviving removed features and so on. On the other hand, modders asked for new toys to improve the quality of their mods.

These two attitudes should - in my opinion- be separated from each other, so that users could apply U(M)P 1.003 to enjoy the perfect YR . All these changes should be also availabe in the mod version for modders which will - I think - deliver their DLL with their mods. (Hey man I LOVE LB)

What do you think about this idea?

[pd]

Haha, this is funny.
This is exactly what I talked about to TSHyper today.

I'm thinking about splitting it into 3 categories, ordered by the respective "target group".

1) The "end user" version
For people you find at CnCNZ, PlanetCnC, and those who aren't active in forums but just play the game.
This version will include my new game mode, RMG improvements and several other fixes and things.
I'll be looking into getting this promoted by Apoc in some way, if there is any way to contact him. Maybe I'll have to ask Banshee to do that for me, as he doesn't seem to read e-mails or PMs by people he doesn't know...

The end user group is a group I've never targeted so far, so this might be a whole new experience for me.
I understand that majority of the community consists of end users, and that I have to do extensive testing of the provided features.

2) The modder version
Developed under the classical RockPatch philosophy, adds new modding possibilities to the game.
It will include new SW types, new side logics, new/overhauled logics in general... well... I don't think I have to say more about it.

3) The programmer version
Basically, this is what I'm doing right now, the development of YR++, the C++ wrapper for the game, documentations, examples and code snippets (including custom classes).

---
These 3 groups form a kind of hierachy, the programmers (which can be modders as well) develop toys for the modders, the modders produce mods for the end users.
That's why I agree to gordon-creAtive, it does make sense to split the project up into these parts.

However, something some people might not approve due to "historical" reasons or whatever, I'd really love to get rid of the name "RockPatch".
It was a random idea that I quickly made up back when I created the first hacks and needed a name for it that is somehow memorizable.

Firstly, that name sucks badly, secondly, the DLLs are technically no patch.
Alas, I need name ideas.
I remember talked to Renegade once thinking about names of Greek gods. If we could find fitting ones, this might be a cool thing.
I need names for the end user version, for the modder version, and for the Debugger (currently called Debugger.exe, which sounds virus-suspicious IMO).

The programmer version has already found the name YR++ thanks to gordon.

[Blade]

Strike team would be the best place to pimp an unofficial patch as that is where most of the MP community is.

[Renegade]

Ares
God of war and bloodshed. Brother to Athena, and is the son of Zeus.

Athena
Goddess of wisdom, handicrafts, agriculture and reason. Sister of Ares, and is the daughter of Zeus. She is a virgin goddess as well.

Hephaestus
God of fire and the forge (god of fire and smiths) with very weak legs. Makes armor for the gods and other heroes like Achilles. Son of Hera. Zeus is his father in some accounts.

You could make the end-user version "Ares", as it is ready for war, so to speak, the modder-version "Athena", as wisdom, handicrafts and reason are surely things needed for a good mod (and, as a bonus, the two are siblings), and could give YR++ the internal codename of "Hephaestus", as "god of the forge" and "making armor for the gods" describes quite well the work the programmers would do. In addition, according to the last line, he may be seen as another sibling of the family.

[Marshall]

This sounds like a very complicated plan. Would it not be simpler to stick with (Debugger.exe + GreekGod.dll) as the main plugin YR++, and then a mod including whatever additional dlls are required on top?

The "end user version" is essentially the UMP with additional fixes/RMG so this would be simpler to distribute as a mod "UMP++" that requires plugin YR++

Confusing a mod and a plugin in the same package would be disasterous in my opinon, and would potentially require a major redesign of Launch Base, which I really don't want to contemplate.

[pd]

Hm... not sure if you got that right.

YR++ is the C++ source file package I provide for people to use. It's no DLL itself, it is the toolset to create them.

Athena will be a DLL modders can opt to use, for example because they are not able or do not want to create their own DLLs (or they want to use Athena additionally to their own DLLs). It will be the "RockPatch" in the classic sense, just as a DLL.

Ares will also be a DLL, but not providing stuff modders should use, but end users. You're right there, the UMP could/should be included with that.

The name "Hephaestus" is left. I'm not sure whether that fits too well to Debugger.exe itself.
I might call Debugger.exe simply YR.exe, cause after all, this is the exe you will put a shortcut on your desktop to to enable the DLL loading. It replaces ra2md.exe as the launcher.

[Marshall]

Sorry, I misunderstood before. Can I just clarify the plans:

1. the "RockPatch" plugin as it is currently known will be replaced with (Debugger.exe + Athena.dll + Ares.dll), and possibly renamed.
Debugger.exe (or whatever the filename) should be run instead of gamemd.exe and will/will not (?) work with unmodded YR.

2. pd's "end user version" to be a combination of the UMP and additional fixes/RMG enhancements made possible by the RockPatch (or whatever it gets renamed to).

3. A separate tool for developers to create their own dlls that they can ship with their mods. (YR++)

#2 concerns me because I assume this is intended to be releasable without relying on Launch Base. i.e. will bundle (Debugger.exe + Ares.dll). Assuming you wish for me to write an install-generator for this that will create an installer compatible with both LB and non-LB users, this won't be a huge issue but will require some work.

What size can we expect (Debugger.exe + Athena.dll + Ares.dll) to be? If it is tiny then the RockPatch as a plugin could be abandoned altogether and mods simply include whatever version they need - this would require the least effort on my part and simplify the whole process for users and modders alike.
(In LB Mod Creator, I'd just create a section "rockpatch" for developers to dump the files in - everything else would be invisible to the users).

Regarding names, I would avoid anything that's easy to mis-spell. I'd also have something distinctive rather than "YR.exe" so that users know exactly what they're running.

[Bachsau]

I don't think that it's possible to remove bugs in original code by DLLs, is it, pd?

You will have to fix bugs in assembler i think...?!?

[pd]

Sure it's possible using DLLs.

For little hacks, assembly hacks might be cleaner (less to do) and technically faster (although differences will probably not be notable), but it's all doable using DLLs.

[~Guest~]

I think a brilliant idea would be to combine the rp2/yr++, ump and modify the rules so that all the imperfections are sorted. Then we could add all the extras like assault mode and stuff and any hardoced errors could be solved via the dlls.

If you think this is a good idea reply and I could set up a wiki as a kind of community project.

[Marshall]

I think this was discussed in another thread.

pd's end user implementation of RP2 will feature all the fixes and additional RP2 features that he plans and may include some or all of the UMP. If not, then an RP2 version of the UMP will cover this. Adding extras like extra maps and the TX will not be done - these are addiitonal components that aren't affected by RP2/the UMP so shouldn't be bundled.