The internet is a lawless place with knowledge and sarcastic wit the pistols of this wild frontier.
Don't go out without being sufficiently armed.

~Blade

Other places

Ares (Current version: 0.B)

Ares's primary facilities have been moved elsewhere:

  • If you wish to report a bug in Ares, please proceed to its bugtracker.
  • If you'd like to request a feature, register a blueprint.
  • If you have questions or can provide answers regarding Ares's usage, visit the Q&A section.
  • Before you post a new question, you should check the FAQ, though.

Behavior

  • Mind the forum rules.
  • Due to its documentedly horrible quality, we do not offer NPatch support.


Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
DFD: Ultimate Smackdown - Prelude
Author Message
Commander-in-Chief Renegade Offline
Lazy Modder
*****
Admins

Posts: 1 906
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Reputation: 14
Post: #1
DFD: Ultimate Smackdown - Prelude
Update: The Ultimate Smackdown has begun!

As we are nearing the end of the judgement period for Rounds 1 and 2 of our Daily Feature Deathmatch, it is time to prepare for our recently decided Ultimate Smackdown.

The situation, as we imagine it so far, will be as follows:
  • You will be presented with a list of all survivors of the first two rounds, that is, all issues waiting to enter round 3.
  • You will get to vote which issues should die immediately, without proceeding further in the DFD.
  • In order to be counted, your votes will have to have a certain format; votes straying from this format will not be counted.
    Your votes also have to be contained in one post. If you wish to alter your votes, edit the previous post. Every user will only get to vote in one post, further votes in other posts will be ignored.
  • In addition, you are encouraged to argue, both for and against issues. While, this time, we will strongly look at the number of people who want certain issues dead, a good argumentation can trump any number of votes - it can kill an issue no one else wanted dead, and it can save an issue everybody else wanted dead.
    This is an attempt to get rid of issues no one wants anyway, but if someone can convince us an issue should live no matter if the community at large wants it or not, then we will honor that.
  • The developers will join the vote. We will vote like everybody else, and our votes will be counted like everybody else's. After all, we are part of the community as much as everyone else, and we, too, have preferences.
  • The vote decision process is simple: We will count the number of unique voters in the thread, and if half or more of the participants voted to kill an issue, it dies.
    Remember there are no survival votes in this event. The only question is whether the majority of people wants an issue dead.
  • However, there's always the little issue of reality: As much as you may want certain issues, some are simply not coming, and as much as you may hate certain issues, we might want to do them anyway.
    After all is said and done, we will look at the outcome of the vote, and we will veto decisions if we consider that necessary. If, for example, an issue survived that none of us has any intention of ever touching, then there's no point in letting it proceed through the DFD - if no one intends to code it, it will not exist, no matter how often it wins.
  • Thus, in the end, we will all be left with a list of issues that at least more than half of the community doesn't completely hate, and which we as developers would at least code if the community really wanted them.

    Which is a vastly better basis for the following rounds than the crap selection we had before.
  • Lastly, depending on how many issues get axed, we might shorten or even end the DFD after the event. Currently, with ten fights still to judge, we have 67 survivors ready to go, which is only two thirds of the projected number.
    The projected number for Round 4 was 50 issues, so if you kill off enough issues, we might just skip a round.
    And if you bring us down even further, there might not even be a need for an additional round. Shift eyes

Post format

In the DFDs, each of you had his own formatting of his posts, some of you more ordered, some of you less.
In order to ensure this event gets sorted out quickly, we are mandating a certain format, designed to ease our work:
  • List of issue IDs of the issues you want to kill, only numbers, no hash signs or other additions, no leading zeros.
  • Horizontal rule
  • Paragraphs for issues you want to argue about; issue ID on its own line, in bold, followed by the argumentation.

Example
Code:
42
436
1111
[hr]

[b]436[/b]
This issue is a waste of time, Visceroids aren't supposed to fly, and it violates the spirit of C&C to add that.

[b]69[/b]
This feature would increase Ares's appeal to female modders and should therefore be saved at all cost.
displayed as
---
42
436
1111


436
This issue is a waste of time, Visceroids aren't supposed to fly, and it violates the spirit of C&C to add that.

69
This feature would increase Ares's appeal to female modders and should therefore be saved at all cost.
---

Be aware that we will copy the issue ID lists as they are and have a computer count the votes. If your votes are not marked up correctly, the computer will not recognize them.

We will search the paragraph headers to determine which issues have additional argumentations. If your header does not have the described look, it will be ignored, and your argumentation will never be read.

This may sound draconian, but given that we'll be looking at something like 70 issues, and potentially a dozen voters, we could, theoretically, end up with hundreds of votes and thousands of lines of argumentation.
We most certainly don't intend to play scavenger hunt for opinions in that volume of data.
Even if we don't get that much data, standardization will make it much easier and quicker to parse.

With that all being said, are there any further questions or suggestions?

Forum Rules

(01.06.2011 05:43:25)kenosis Wrote:  Oh damn don't be disgraced again!

(25.06.2011 20:42:59)Nighthawk Wrote:  The proverbial bearded omni-bug may be dead, but the containment campaign is still being waged in the desert.
06.08.2010 07:58:01
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Private reaperrr Offline
Member
***
Members

Posts: 82
Joined: 26 May 2010
Reputation: 0
Post: #2
RE: DFD: Ultimate Smackdown - Prelude
(06.08.2010 07:58:01)Renegade Wrote:  [*]Lastly, depending on how many issues get axed, we might shorten or even end the DFD after the event. Currently, with ten fights still to judge, we have 67 survivors ready to go, which is only two thirds of the projected number.
huh? If i counted right, there's still 25 open fights, and at least ~20 of those fights are not decided yet Wink
Which would mean we'd end up with ~90 issues (92 if i counted right), as projected.

Regardless of that,
(06.08.2010 07:58:01)Renegade Wrote:  The projected number for Round 4 was 50 issues, so if you kill off enough issues, we might just skip a round.
And if you bring us down even further, there might not even be a need for an additional round. Shift eyes

so basically you're saying we should kill as many issues as we can NOW, to shorten DFD as much as possible?
In other words, kill not only crap issues, but also issues that are "nice but not nice enough" in our eyes?

I think that's a VERY good idea. Why? Simple: If we don't, then every round that takes place has the risk of putting up "best request" vs. "2nd best request" and so on, and we might end up losing like half of the best 10 requests only because the randomized match-maker forced us to.

If possible, I really think we should at least try to make the Ultimate Smackdown the last round. That would drastically increase the probability of only the very best issues surviving. And it would shorten the whole event on top of that, because both the community and the Ares team don't have to judge each issue for up to 4 consecutive times.


EDIT: Just a thought, but maybe if there aren't enough issues killed during the US to end DFD right away, proceed to a US:Round 2 using the same mode instead of the randomized Round 3? Like I said, this mode decreases the probability of the best being killed by the 2nd best etc., so I clearly favor it over randomized matches.
(This post was last modified: 06.08.2010 12:30:53 by reaperrr.)
06.08.2010 12:23:28
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Commander-in-Chief Renegade Offline
Lazy Modder
*****
Admins

Posts: 1 906
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Reputation: 14
Post: #3
RE: DFD: Ultimate Smackdown - Prelude
Ah, yes, I judged so many threads that I started thinking in them. Alright, so maybe we have the projected number of fights now, but given the large number of crappy pairings, I don't think we'll keep that level. LOL My original point stands: If enough issues die, it'll have an effect on DFD's length.

And no - the idea is that each of you can propose to kill whichever issues you don't think should even be considered. If enough of you agree that an issue shouldn't even be considered, it'll die.
Given that there were quite a few requests people seemed to agree were crappy in the individual DFDs, I'm simply not convinced there are enough "acceptable" issues to sustain us for another three rounds. Whether I'm correct, the outcome will show.

Lastly, I'm afraid your argumentation is the exact reason we're not choosing that way. The very point is to force the community to choose which issues are more important to it. If not made to choose, the community will simply request and reopen and reiterate whatever it wants at any given moment. If not made to choose, the answer will always be "Why can't we have both? Do A first, and then B in the next release!".

And while a second round of US could possibly force such a choice, it would take away the focus from the individual issues, something that's not desirable, either.

As said on every stage of DFD so far: Good issues will die. It sucks, but it's necessary.

Forum Rules

(01.06.2011 05:43:25)kenosis Wrote:  Oh damn don't be disgraced again!

(25.06.2011 20:42:59)Nighthawk Wrote:  The proverbial bearded omni-bug may be dead, but the containment campaign is still being waged in the desert.
06.08.2010 19:10:55
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Private reaperrr Offline
Member
***
Members

Posts: 82
Joined: 26 May 2010
Reputation: 0
Post: #4
RE: DFD: Ultimate Smackdown - Prelude
(06.08.2010 19:10:55)Renegade Wrote:  Ah, yes, I judged so many threads that I started thinking in them. Alright, so maybe we have the projected number of fights now, but given the large number of crappy pairings, I don't think we'll keep that level. LOL My original point stands: If enough issues die, it'll have an effect on DFD's length.
ok Wink

(06.08.2010 19:10:55)Renegade Wrote:  And no - the idea is that each of you can propose to kill whichever issues you don't think should even be considered. If enough of you agree that an issue shouldn't even be considered, it'll die.
Given that there were quite a few requests people seemed to agree were crappy in the individual DFDs, I'm simply not convinced there are enough "acceptable" issues to sustain us for another three rounds. Whether I'm correct, the outcome will show.
Alright, thanks for clearing that up for me. I wanted to know because there's 'only' about 20 issues (+/- 10 depending on how harshly I judgeWink ) that I think shouldn't even be considered, but only 4 I really want to survive at all costs, so the rest was kind of a grey area to me.

(06.08.2010 19:10:55)Renegade Wrote:  Lastly, I'm afraid your argumentation is the exact reason we're not choosing that way. The very point is to force the community to choose which issues are more important to it. If not made to choose, the community will simply request and reopen and reiterate whatever it wants at any given moment. If not made to choose, the answer will always be "Why can't we have both? Do A first, and then B in the next release!".
Ok, I see your point. Yeah, that would be troublesome, I must agree LOL

(06.08.2010 19:10:55)Renegade Wrote:  And while a second round of US could possibly force such a choice, it would take away the focus from the individual issues, something that's not desirable, either.
Fair enough.

(06.08.2010 19:10:55)Renegade Wrote:  As said on every stage of DFD so far: Good issues will die. It sucks, but it's necessary.
I know, and basically I fully support DFDs approach. It's really just the mentioned worst-case that I'm a bit afraid of.

Alright, then I'll just try to back up my personal favorites as much as possible through arguments for them (and against their opponents) and hope not too many of them will have to fight against each other or some more popular opponent, just like beforeWink
06.08.2010 20:20:18
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)