DFD: 826 vs. 932, 979 vs. 1007

[Renegade]

DFD: Daily Feature Deathmatch

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The Cruel Fight For Implementation

This is a Daily Feature Deathmatch post. If you are unfamiliar with the background of this event, please read the announcement and the schedule.

Fight 1

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[0000826] Custom-coloured Iron Curtain effect vs. [0000932] Improving of Alpha Light feature.

Fight 2

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[0000979] MakeOwner= on Weapons vs. [0001007] Spying Upon a Tech Center showing user's SW time and cursors

By the end of the 48 hour period, two of these issues will be suspended, while the other two move on to the next round.
Remember that the coders will not take part in the discussion, so make your arguments complete, concise and convincing - when it's over, it's over.

Part of that is clearly marking what outcome you support for which issue.
There should be no ambiguity in the issue you're talking about, and it should be clear what outcome you support. Feel free to put your stance in bold, and use simple terminology like "kill #69" or "I want #42 to survive".
A decision will be made either way, so a lack of discussion will not cause all issues to live.

Be friendly, be civil, be logical.
You are allowed to try to deconstruct the arguments of those arguing against your candidate, but remember that they don't make the call - there is really no point in getting personal.

The discussion should be contained in this thread, argumentations elsewhere will be ignored, but you are allowed to transfer and adapt points made elsewhere in the past.

We want a good, clean fight.
Let's get it on!

End: ~ 19:00, 09.07.2010.

[MRMIdAS]

[0000932] seems like the most useful out of two "meh" issues, it would fix existing problems with the logic, which is a good thing.
[0000979] could be an extention of the Jarmen Kell logic, which is a good thing, superweapon timers are mostly visible anyway, so that's not important to me.

[Beowulf]

Kill #826. As these are both graphical in nature, alpha lighting is quite a bit more useful in terms of eye candy. There are plenty of options available like maybe alpha spotlights, alpha lights that follow a unit around for something like headlights and, if at all possible, introduce a way to colorize the alpha lighting. The possibilities for alpha lights are far, FAR, FAR more useful than a colorized Iron Curtain or Force Shield...

Kill #1007. There is a timer display on the bottom right for a reason, and this is that reason! #979 would at least allow for some interesting weapon combinations like a Jarmen Kell sniper shot or better, and different, mutation weapons. I support #979 based on the fact it improves weapon capability.

[~Firefly~]

[0000932] i dont like neither of those issues, but since this is a "fix", ill vote for this one

[0000979] weapons that change owner are more useful than a seeing a cursor (you can see the time already!)

[Lt Albrecht]

Kill #826. As these are both graphical in nature, alpha lighting is quite a bit more useful in terms of eye candy. There are plenty of options available like maybe alpha spotlights, alpha lights that follow a unit around for something like headlights and, if at all possible, introduce a way to colorize the alpha lighting. The possibilities for alpha lights are far, FAR, FAR more useful than a colorized Iron Curtain or Force Shield...

Kill #1007. There is a timer display on the bottom right for a reason, and this is that reason! #979 would at least allow for some interesting weapon combinations like a Jarmen Kell sniper shot or better, and different, mutation weapons. I support #979 based on the fact it improves weapon capability.

Fen delivers some good points which I agree with. The first round is a fight for which kind of shiny people want (and alphalighting is a far better kind than customising a few colours). The second fight is a brawl between giving players omniscience (which would suck) and an interesting feature that could be used to replicate propaganda or other features.

[Blade]

Kill 826, although it would be a nice effect, making the already improved alpha lights work for the scenarios described would be more like completing a work in progress. That said, a very good hologram effect using a combo of regular anim and alpha light has already been developed making it less pressing for the animation side of things for that useage case at least.

Tough call on the second one, WW was already on their way to implementing a method of seeing an intended superweapon target with the incomplete psiwarn system of the psychic sensor. I'd argue that showing the SW target cursor in real time might be a bit too much, but making psiwarn work for all supers and giving a global map coverage if you spy something sounds interesting. I'm kind of against #979 since we already have 2 ways to convert a unit to your side (3 if you count mind control and perma mind control as seperate) and the chaos effect gives IMO a similar effect to what "random" might cause. You are only really missing turning them neutral and a time limit on capture. Then again time limited capture might lead to interesting new units.

[Professor_Tesla]

Out of the first two, I support the second one because it would give what I see as necessary improvements to a feature. While I also would like the first one to survive, I'm not very attached to it.
Out of the second two, I would like the first one (MakeOwner= on weapons) to be implemented. I think that an option to change a targeted unit to a specified side, rather than only being able to temporarily (or even permanently) change a targeted unit to the firing unit's side, would be a good feature because it would enable side-changing without the reddish-purple perma-mind-control ring above the units affected, and enabling changing to a side other than just the attacker's would add a bit more variety. I also think that, as mentioned above, giving a player omniscience of another player just for infiltrating their battle lab would be way overpowered.

[AlexB]

Fight 1
It seems to be common sense that the Alpha lights are a bug fix and should take precedence over improving the customisability of the iron curtain color. Indeed it is better to do less stuff right instead of doing much stuff wrong.

Fight 2
The MakeOwner issue should be more versatile and it might be good to implement it along with #601, the temporary side change logic, as it is a side change for indefinite time. The neutral option rather sounds like just another way to EMP/deactivate/paralyse a unit, for unlimited time this equals the KillDriver logic. But apart from that, having a way to see the enemy's every action is just not strategic. It actually removes strategies from the enemy as he can't suprise you any more, not even with his superweapons.

[Renegade]

Fight 1

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Beowulf should read the manual. Headlights are already possible.

Still, we all seem to concur that alpha lights are the better issue to pursue.

Kill #826
Support #932

Fight 2

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This one is kinda tough...not in making a decision (again, there seems to be a general consensus), but in living with it.

1007 displayed its stupidity from the start - for one, SW timers are already visible globally, so adding a limited local place to see them is very pointless, and for two, if the enemy has super weapons, he logically has super weapon buildings - so why not spy those buildings to see the timers?
To see the infantry being built and gain better infantry, you infiltrate the place where the infantry comes from.
To see the vehicles being built and gain better vehicles, you infiltrate the place where the vehicles comes from.
To acquire new technology, you infiltrate the place where the technology comes from.
To shut down the power, you infiltrate the place where the power comes from.
To see the super weapon timer and cursor, you...infiltrate the place where technology comes from?

The entire issue simply makes no fucking sense.

However...MakeOwner= ain't exactly the cream of the crop, either.
I mean, let's look at the cases:

MakeOwner= attacker // normal // neutral // random

"attacker" is the unit firing the weapon.
[...]
"normal" is the unit firing the weapon.
[...]
"neutral" and "random" should be self-explanatory.

So basically, you have 4 cases - two of which are identical and do exactly the same as mind control in its various forms, one which does essentially the same as KillDriver, and one which, as Blade pointed out, is partially similar to the chaos effect and practically silly and without a decent, remotely common usage case.

It's a pointless request with little practical value, but given that its opponent proposes to duplicate existing functionality in an utterly illogical way, I guess it wins.

Kill #1007
Support #979

[Renegade]

Results:

Fight 1

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Loser: #826
Victor: #932


Fight 2

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Loser: #1007
Victor: #979