APOC: "make a community patch for YR, we might endorse it."

[DCoder]

With all due respect our resources are focused on C&C 3 support, upcoming Kane's Wrath, and even at some point...patches hopefully for the BFME franchise before anything else.

While I would love to patch RA2 and Yuri's, unfortunately, I would not count on it right now, and not sure when. I'll happily throw official support behind anyone who wants to make a community patch and if its good, I could get our dev team to look at it, and give it a stamp of approval essentially.

That'd be the best I can envision right now.

Source

Is this worth paying any attention to? Or is it just one more idea that sounds good now, but will actually end up being yet another mask EA puts on trying to look friendly to us?
Shall we promote UMP or even the old idea of 1.002 Community Patch (which might be worth doing after all if there were actual bugs unfixable without exe patching) ? Or watch one-mapping, crate-trolling, ToE-loving imbecile dipshits from XWIS whine loud enough to get their wet dream?

Discuss.

Edit: PPM has two threads about this now, this and this.

[gordon-creAtive]

[My opinion] It's not worth paying attention to because he's at the beginning of a way this community already walked. All the (recent) great developments were created without the help of EA Games or Strike-Team. I don't now any reason why helping them now. We also simply don't need them! [/My opinion]

Edit: I think the idea of a community patch 1.002 will come back after LB and YR++ release...

Edit2:

I'll happily throw official support behind anyone who wants to make a community patch

"Can someone do something I'm to lazy to do?"

I could get our dev team to look at it

"After you finished, we'll take over the whole project and you'll receive a decoration, private"

Blabla

[Marshall]

If there were to be an "officially endorsed community made patch" it would have to be just a few exe hacks by pd to fix the bugs that the UMP can't fix on it's own, and include the UMP files.

pd may not be inclined to do this, especially if it is going to impact on development of RP2.

This could not incoporate RP2 itself, nor can I see us including the Assault mode/TX etc (back to the issue before about 'what do we actually include in such a community patch').

I think the time and effort needed to develop and deploy a 'proper' patch is greater than the reward. Such a patch may also ruffle some feathers at XWIS, and everyone will have their own opinion about balance changes and so forth. Hell, that's why we make mods - if the game was already perfect for everyone then there wouldn't be a modding community.

All in all, I think that simply having the UMP and later combining it with RP2 developments (which is the way we are heading now) is perfectly okay.

And Launch Base will be the hub that brings everything together (just as soon as D finishes that dll!).

I concur with gordon's sentiments exactly. We've already R&D'd at length and put in all the effort to get where we are, and no 'magic endorsement' from people who, quite frankly, no longer have anything to do with YR is going to achieve anything significant.

Business as usual.

[pd]

As me and DCoder have partially "discussed" this on MSN, EA might be the key though to make these fixes, UMP + RP2/whatever name official, ie the whole world knows about it.

Who's using the UMP right now?
Can't name many, not even I count to them right now.
So where's the point having a UMP if nobody uses it (our modding community is really "nobody" compared to the masses of actual end users)?

If EA can officially promote it - and who could do it better than them - go ahead.
What role my exe mods or the new DLL system would play there, I have no idea.

[Marshall]

Well the only way I can see it working is if it is really just a mod stuffed into expandmd02.mix
i.e. triple check the UMP changes so that there is nothing anyone would question and make sure there is nothing outstanding. This means no balance changes.

I really think exe changes should be a separate thing - i.e. UMP2 if neccessary.

[tsactuo]

Actually EA can't accept a hacked .exe (like RP/NP) for a patch for the community because simply they can't trust/check it. What they probably mean is some balance changes patch and some softcoded fixes (like those in UMP). In my opinion, if they are not going to open their YR source code and fix engine bugs this patch is not worth the effort.

If EA had to make a patch and keep exe the same, the best way to go would be CannisRules 1.8 without the new units (Only the Balance of Power).

[Banshee]

Yea, tsactuo. This is the reason why I discarded .exe changes at my news post about it in PPM. So far, we can add UMP + TX. Adding material from Cannis requires his authorization and at least some screenshots with proofs of his authorization placed in a safe place. Cannis hasn't appeared in his own forums for ages, so I doubt we would have any chance of getting this kind of authorization anytime soon.

So, what I suggest is to negotiate two patches. One immediate (UMP and terrain expansion) and a ballance patch later.

So far Marshall and Blade agrees with it. Now we need some the support of some community sites to, with their support, contact Aaron Kaufman.

[Marshall]

Banshee, I wouldn't say that I had agreed to anything. Right now this is a hypothetical discussion. If anything I am quite some way from being convinced that this would be a good idea.
Of course I have no objection to anything from the UMP being used if this patch goes ahead.

Several notes of caution.
The UMP and TX aren't officially 'finished' - there may be updates to these later.

I don't think it would be well received to suggest that there would be multiple "official" patches released in future.

I don't think balance changes are a good idea if they aren't officially official - everyone will have their own thoughts on what changes should be made.

Possibly some of the "extra" UMP fixes would be candidates for the patch, I'd take a vote on those (but then again, I'd take a vote on those for the UMP regardless).

The TX is very large - if people are happy for the patch to be huge then we might as well include the official map packs too. And from there it's not much of a leap to bundle loads of other stuff too.

I think that the only viable content for such a patch would be the UMP fixes. Note that the TX includes some building shps that are also present in the UMP (in fact I think the UMP even has a fixed fixed version of one that is in the TX) so at least the TX could stop including those.

I should also point out that without any exe changes in this official 1.002 patch, the game menu would still say "Version 1.001". So much for official-looking huh?

[tsactuo]

Whatever, the only YR mod out there from all those years, that can be considered for an official patch is CannisRules (that I think already includes Marshalls UMP fixes). If we can't get Cannis permission, or if we can't in any way exactly replicate it, this is a no go.

Every other mod makes too many gameplay changes, or is a total conversion.

As for the Terrain Expansion. I am against it. As I remember that some maps crashed when I had this installed. But if those can be worked out its ok.

Also I don't think that there will be chances for more than one patch, so doing a technical patch first and balance patch later is pretty much impossible.

Red Alert 3 is going to be announced in 1-2 days I think, so that's probably why EA is teasing RA players.

[pd]

Red Alert 3 is going to be announced in 1-2 days I think, so that's probably why EA is teasing RA players.

Either you knew it already, or you have a damn good 6th sense. :S

[Bobingabout]

i dunno about a RA3, but, SPORE! was announced to be released 7th sept... thats like, nearly 3 years from the 11th november 2005 planned release ¬.¬ lol.

[Blade]

Whatever, the only YR mod out there from all those years, that can be considered for an official patch is CannisRules (that I think already includes Marshalls UMP fixes). If we can't get Cannis permission, or if we can't in any way exactly replicate it, this is a no go.

This kind of attitude is exactly why we are going to get problems, CannisRules deviates substantially from YR as it originally was and goes beyond simple balance changes to existing units. Admittedly I agree with some of the changes (such as expanding the Yuri Navy to bump Boomer to higher tech), but several others I don't as I think they go too far in what they change (air transports for all sides for example, the base expansion vehicles). CannisRules doesn't come close to what I'd consider acceptable for an official patch, UMP does. Lets not get started on some of the travesties that are claimed as "balance" mods that people will start touting as the solution to perceived imbalances in the game.

[gordon-creAtive]

Also the question is, what exactly this new patch should improve. You all only mentioned the balance problems, but I also see problems with internet games (the server browser should be improved, LAN gaming should completly work over TCP/IP etc.). Ok, this works only by modifying the exe, but is also necessary...

[Banshee]

Several notes of caution.
The UMP and TX aren't officially 'finished' - there may be updates to these later.

Nothing prevents them from being updated after the patch.

I don't think it would be well received to suggest that there would be multiple "official" patches released in future.

Again, before assuming anything, I would negotiate with APOC and this could be easier if we get a stronger community support.

I don't think balance changes are a good idea if they aren't officially official - everyone will have their own thoughts on what changes should be made.

I think we'll have to incline to the ballance changes suggested by the XWIS players.

The TX is very large - if people are happy for the patch to be huge then we might as well include the official map packs too. And from there it's not much of a leap to bundle loads of other stuff too.

It's not very big for today's connections and you don't need to include any maps with it, to be honest. Many community maps are already compatible with it.

I think that the only viable content for such a patch would be the UMP fixes. Note that the TX includes some building shps that are also present in the UMP (in fact I think the UMP even has a fixed fixed version of one that is in the TX) so at least the TX could stop including those.

I still think UMP + TX would be a better idea.

I should also point out that without any exe changes in this official 1.002 patch, the game menu would still say "Version 1.001". So much for official-looking huh?

Errr.. I'm not that stupid. When I said no exe change, it means anything that changes the source code of the game. Changing 1.001 to 1.002 wouldn't affect Rock Patch, NPatch, etc... and doesn't affect the official YR source code.

[Bobingabout]

I should also point out that without any exe changes in this official 1.002 patch, the game menu would still say "Version 1.001". So much for official-looking huh?

Errr.. I'm not that stupid. When I said no exe change, it means anything that changes the source code of the game. Changing 1.001 to 1.002 wouldn't affect Rock Patch, NPatch, etc... and doesn't affect the official YR source code.

actually, RPCE and, presumably later do actually change the game version number