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Revora and the freedom of speech - Printable Version

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Revora and the freedom of speech - gordon-creAtive - 27.07.2007

Recently I posted at Revora to improve my RP mirror (see signature):

Quote:Nighthawk and me are creating some RP mirrors, but there are still some RP versions missing. A full list of all versions that were released can be found on ModEnc:
http://www.modenc.renegadeprojects.c...Patch:Versions

I need the following versions, please post or send them if you can find them:

RP 1.01 -> RP 1.07
RPCE74 all except #0102

This was the result:
[Image: RevoraWarn.jpg]

However, I had no problem with this, I broke the rules and this was the boards admin reaction. To prevent further problems:
Dear PD, am I allowed to distribute your RP versions? I will not use them for own vantages, just to serve the community.
For completeness: Dear VK, am I allowed to distribute your RP versions? I will not use them for own vantages, just to serve the community.

But my post-ban was just the 'light version' of Nighthawks case: He had to remove his protest page even without breaking any rules with it.

After some post I feel like most people don't understand my attitude, so I want to clarify it:

I like the NPatch - yes that's true - but I'm dissapointed with several other things that come with it:
  • "Web-Installer" -> no control which patch the mod players use
  • "VK Homepage only for distribution" -> Why making things easy when they also could be complicated? I don't want my modplayers to visit VK's (strange) homepage each time they install the mod, I know lots of poeple who haven't internet, like me 1-2 month ago
  • "NPatch" -> I think NPatch is one of the worst names for this awful thing. Thatmight be not really a reason but "Rock the battlefield" was just too good. (Did you know that NPatch is a technology of ATI graphic adapters? Doesn't this cause again some copyright problems?)
  • VK's treatment of the community -> VK gives a fuck what the community thinks. It seem's like he's coding that patch for his own. In my opinion that patch should serve the community an VK should respect our critic. It' just for his best.

So I added NPatch to my RP mirror list and I call this "civil disobedience" a thing founded by Gandhi: I am not allowed to do this, but I do it to show that I have a problem with NPatch. My actions will not harm anyone, even VK, I help him distributing his patch. I also don't have any vantages because of that. SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY MY POSTS ARE BANNED SO CRUDELY AND I GET A WARN LEVEL OF 33%. The moment I saw what happened I thought about creating a new userbar: "Revora sucks VK's dick" But this wouldn't make things better.

So I hope all the guys that critized so directly my way of expressing my opinion understand what I'm doing and stop their "Stop doing this bullshit and come back to reality"-like posts.

Thank you

//Edit: Made this large post easier to read with some formatting

//Edit2: There is something I have to add:

After the removal of the RTB website I sent a e-mail to VK and offered him 5 gigs webspace, unlimted traffic, full ftp access, own domain - everything for free. He didn't answer. THIS WASN'T A REASON TO START THIS PROTEST!

//Edit3:

The 'official' VK/Npatch homepage is down. (27.07.2007 22:31 Berlin time, 21:31 forum time) Now my server is the only place where users can get NPatch. Ironic, isn't it? At the official forum, Revora, users aren't allowed to post the patch...

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - Nighthawk - 28.07.2007

Now I think I understand why VK wanted hosted at Revora - the whole hostee protection thing.

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - DCoder - 28.07.2007

Quote:(27.07.2007 22:31 Berlin time, 21:31 forum time)
Sounds like you need to fix your timezone/DST settings in User CP...

Quote:Now I think I understand why VK wanted hosted at Revora
Like I said, a place that values quantity over quality is the right home for VK.

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - AlliedG - 28.07.2007

@ Gordon which you posted on Revora VK bug forum

I'm sure this is NPatch related because it never occured without NPatch on my computer:
[Image: missingbrackets.JPG]

Really descriptive post of your error in a thread which specifically says to post Internal Errors and except texts in bold.

Finally all these so called "quality" sites are dead/fill with people who can whine a lot but do jack shit.

I admit I use to whine at lot at PD but I have no right.

I have don't see DCoder or anyone else making a EXE patch anytime soon.

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - gordon-creAtive - 28.07.2007

AlliedG Wrote:Finally all these so called "quality" sites are dead/fill with people who can whine a lot but do jack shit.
I can see only one person whinig around here. I always had reasons for my behaviour, I made them clear to everybody. Sorry if this was too complicated for you.
AlliedG Wrote:I have don't see DCoder or anyone else making a EXE patch anytime soon.

Oh yeah, the Revora method "Soon a new mod will come, it will feature this and that" and 2 months later - no sign.
I already took a closer look at gamemd.exe but I don't know how succesful I'll be so I just try without telling the whole world. The result is important - not what somebody expects to be the result. Like DCoder always said: Revora is a place for quantity, not quality.
NPatch looks so promising, but I bet this won't last long.

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - AlliedG - 28.07.2007

yeah whatever look at renegade, its a real hive of modding activity here with just n00bs posting crap like is cloaking tower possible or community is dying

also you don't even have any expected work to show just excuses, like VK, sucks, etc, etc.

also I don't care about your reasons so no need to defend yourself and act like you are some innocent victim being abused by some big community site.

If anything all these anti-patch, website complaints are just amusing.

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - gordon-creAtive - 28.07.2007

If you don't care about my reasons and don't like my posts than stop answering them.
AlliedG Wrote:innocent victim being abused by some big community site

I never said that I feel innocent. READ MY POSTS MAN. I just feel like a big community site made me shut up just for their own profit. Why didn't they warn VK? His homepage was hosted on IcySons server, where he distributed illegal dvd-rips and games.Why didn't they remove the 'illegal' RP Revision posts by other members like MadHQ and warn them?
Because my posts were protest posts, I didn't hide my intentions and they were against one of their most promising project.
And why was Nighthawk outranked?

I've got the courage to speak loudly what I think, even when it is against a whole community and that is what you guys don't like. I'm not a n00b in the masses.

Did you see any work from me? I guess Half-Life mods and Company websites don't fit in this forum. Despite VK I take critics serious. And I didn't say that his NPatch is crap, I never claimed to make this thing better than him.

Can you blaming me all the time instead of discussing with arguments?

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - AlliedG - 29.07.2007

Well this RP revision mirrors and nighthawks "behaviour" with his lameass song and behaviour when he is a user of the patch, what do you expect?

It seems like everyone is trying to put VK and wherever he goes in a negative light when afaik only two people made patches and lets be honest if you were in very beginning of RP conception you would know that 1.05 was one of the bug ridden patches and it was work of PD long before VK appeared.

VK I admit adds a long of stuff but generally most of his patches have been subject to change and fix updates. Some people complain that yes there are too many patches but that is just his style, he doesn't like online documentation as well, so its his style.

Since he is the only one coding it, you can't really expect much from him in return. He doesn't "owe" anyone anything for sure.

He is also the only exe guy to be worked on TS as well with ETS and I can imagine his horror of being surrounded by people who ask either silly questions, haven't read documentations or are giving vague descriptions.

Finally this is a forum for RA2/YR mainly and thus although I am sure your 3D modelling, company websites are great, its not what is being discussed or about.

Also n00b in the masses, are often the people with the loudest voice, who thing they are know it all or are somehow more "l337" when everyone just looks at them and feels annoyed/embarassed.

Basically either way we can go

1) flame wars with me constantly saying lol Tongue 2

2) intelligent discussion

But I've got plenty of holiday time so I don't mind replying.

Finally forums have limits to freedom of speech because its controlled by admins.

Anything which is against anyone hosted wishes is acted upon, anything which is deemed directly offensive towards a member or his work is also dealt with warnings IP bans.

Basically Revora is not tolerant of such works because it goes against the hosts wishes.

Also a really intelligent reply:

The moment I saw what happened I thought about creating a new userbar: "Revora sucks VK's dick"

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - gordon-creAtive - 29.07.2007

I was just mirroring Nighthawks pages, they are reflecting his view of the situation. I linked and mirrored them for protest because Nighthawk was 'muted'. I never contributed AntiNpatch pages. The userbar created by me says "Save RP!" not "stop VK" or "stop NPatch", because I want VK to continue the RockPatch name (rather unimportant) and distribution politics, I don't just want kill VK's work.

I never said that I don't like NPatch (the patch itself), I hate his distribution politics. (web-installer, don't include it with your mod, no wishlist, abusing the community as beta-testers.) I listed this reason in the NPatch thread as reasons for my boycott.

AlliedG Wrote:Basically Revora is not tolerant of such works because it goes against the hosts wishes.
Now I know, won't be a problem again. I tried and failed. I can accept critics.

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - Nighthawk - 29.07.2007

Quote:Well this RP revision mirrors and nighthawks "behaviour" with his lameass song and behaviour when he is a user of the patch, what do you expect?
It's not my song.
My views have been rather misunderstood. It's VK, his policies, and attitude I'm pissed off at. If he were to willingly run the NPatch in the same way that the RockPatch was run originally (i.e. the community has a say, free distribution, at least trying to ensure backwards compatiblity, etc.) I would perhaps turn down my tone a bit, but that doesn't look likely.

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - gordon-creAtive - 29.07.2007

It is my song, it is a funny view of the situation and I take full responsibility for it.

Quote:My views have been rather misunderstood. It's VK, his policies, and attitude I'm pissed off at. If he were to willingly run the NPatch in the same way that the RockPatch was run originally (i.e. the community has a say, free distribution, at least trying to ensure backwards compatiblity, etc.) I would perhaps turn down my tone a bit, but that doesn't look likely.

I think exactly the same, but it seems like most guys don't want to see that little difference.

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - Nighthawk - 29.07.2007

I can see where the misunderstanding is. People probably think I'm against the patch itself. I'm not, the patch is a good idea in principle. It's how it's ran and controlled that I don't like.

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - IcySon55 - 31.07.2007

gordon-creAtive Wrote:His homepage was hosted on IcySons server, where he distributed illegal dvd-rips and games.
So now he's accusing me of hosting illegal material. Good show gordon-dumbAss. You completely failed to read the disclaimer which clearly states that none of the downloads are hosted on my server.

gordon-creAtive Wrote:where he distributed
I don't distribute anything. I simply run a bittorrent tracker that has 3 hostees. They post the downloads and provide the data. My server does not host any of the material available.

Next time get your facts straight before posting bullshit.

RE: Revora and the freedom of speech - gordon-creAtive - 08.08.2007

Herewith I want to say that I no longer accuse IcySon55 of distributing illegal content. I'm sorry for this mistake.