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+--- Thread: WHAT the hell is going on? (/showthread.php?tid=633)
WHAT the hell is going on? - pd - 12.02.2007
So there's finally a new RockPatch version out. Cool.
I didn't try it yet (I use TFD and got no clue whether that is fixed already or not), but it seems obvious when looking at through the recent posts in this forum: RPCE is celebrating with more bugs and destroyed features than new stuff that actually works fine.
Heck, with RPCE installed, the game isn't even compatible to itself.
I never experienced a greater confusion after an RP release, and this is definitely caused by tag name changes and other evil stuff that are mostly pointless.
Let me quote a few things.
Most of them are questions that have been answered already, but I'd like to comment on them anyway.
With "you" I'll be addressing CnCVK.
Confusion
MadHQ Wrote:Ok so what do we install this too? 1.08SE... or 1.08SE with revision .0035... or what...Good point. After introducing that weird revision system, someone should have mentionned what the hell to do with the patch exe. Given that the patcher doesn't even work correctly (see below), this confuses people already before they actually downloaded the patch. Great.
Pointless name changes, typos in the offline help
RPCE features list Wrote:Third campaign TUT1 -> THD1 nowThis is probably one of the most pointless name changes ever. The only thing I thought when I saw that in the features list was: WHY???
Come on, there is no reason in hell for that change. Only thing it does is make life harder for those who added a third campaign. Oh, and it raises the confusion level.
The worst thing is, that offline help appeared to have changed tag names mistyped so it didn't help at all. CnCVK, is possible you're too confused yourself so you mistype your new tags?
Why have an offline help anyway? What did Ren, D and me compile those ModEnc pages for? I abolished offline help files because they're hard to keep up to date. For exactly that reason above (typos, other mistakes).
BobingAbout Wrote:its all in the help, although it doesn't explain it too wellAnd then it doesn't even have quality...
Patcher?
Marshall Wrote:Yes, manually delete expandmd02.mixAh right, the non-removal of expandmd02.mix. If it doesn't remove that file automatically, why have an installer at all? Isn't this the job of an installer, to do things automatically?
This sort of thing could have been discussed before, if VK just didn't keep this version a secret.
The First Decade
It's cool to see a new RP version out which I (let me remind you that I was the one starting this project) can't even install.
Marshall Wrote:Yes, early versions of the RPCE installer do not work on The First Decade. A fixed version is with CnCVK and will hopefully be uploaded soon.WTF?
Why does 1.08SE work on The First Decade and CE not? I see no point here.
I don't even know whether this has been fixed already. There's too many complaints around here, you can't really keep track of what's fixed and what's not. This really sucks.
Warhead=Nuke
Since new SW system, you MUST NOT use Warhead=Nuke.[/quote Wrote:What the ztyping hell is up?So RPCE removes the Nuke clone feature?
This very "feature" makes the game incompatible to itself, since the nuke reactor's DeathAnim uses that warhead itself.
And what the hell and especially WHY did you change to the nuke warhead? I really want an detailed explanation on that.
[quote="However, I not recommend to use nuke clones in mods too :("
Nuke clones worked fine afaik. I don't know why you're messing with them. Why don't you just leave them alone? You're not improving it - like you like to say - you're destroying it.
LightningStorms
Another interesting case.
TheMan Wrote:I had same problem as you, its not your codes its a CE bug. I think this will be fixed in next rivisionGreat. Let's all wait till the next revision comes out and confuses us even more.
Seriously.
Again, this can be categorized under "stupid, pointless tag name changings". LStorm instead of LS. The only thing this does is making modders angry.
Then it seems whatever you did doesn't even work. So you destroyed LS clones, too, awesome.
-------------------------
I'm running out of quotes at the moment.
But well, that should be enough - for now.
My conclusion is that RPCE isn't progressing the RockPatch development, it's more like the beginning of the end of the patch.
Seriously, this version's DL link should be removed from the site and we should go back use 1.08SE.
CnCVK, you should really explain several things, and please, explain them, don't come with things like "it's better" or "it will be great" or whatever. Cause frankly, that seems to be lies.
After that, we should discuss how this version could be fixed. I have only little hope since a lot of stoff is pretty much fucked up now.
pd over.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Bobingabout - 12.02.2007
pd Wrote:Patcher?This was marshals doing, "What if a mod, or community project uses expandmd02.mix, you wouldn't want some kind of community patch deleting it for you".
Marshall Wrote:Yes, manually delete expandmd02.mixAh right, the non-removal of expandmd02.mix. If it doesn't remove that file automatically, why have an installer at all? Isn't this the job of an installer, to do things automatically?
This sort of thing could have been discussed before, if VK just didn't keep this version a secret.
pd Wrote:The First Decademarshal totally re-wrote the patcher to work with his new launchbase program. he made a couple of programming errors, and since he doesn't have TFD to try it on, or an anti-virus that stops getlang.exe, he didn't notice. a fixed version was uploaded a couple of days ago already.
It's cool to see a new RP version out which I (let me remind you that I was the one starting this project) can't even install.
Marshall Wrote:Yes, early versions of the RPCE installer do not work on The First Decade. A fixed version is with CnCVK and will hopefully be uploaded soon.WTF?
Why does 1.08SE work on The First Decade and CE not? I see no point here.
I don't even know whether this has been fixed already. There's too many complaints around here, you can't really keep track of what's fixed and what's not. This really sucks.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - pd - 12.02.2007
BobingAbout Wrote:This was marshals doing, "What if a mod, or community project uses expandmd02.mix, you wouldn't want some kind of community patch deleting it for you".
BobingAbout Wrote:(...) and since he doesn't have TFD to try it on, or an anti-virus that stops getlang.exe, he didn't notice.
I Wrote:This sort of thing could have been discussed before, if VK just didn't keep this version a secret.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Guest - 12.02.2007
i strongly suggest making those patch beta tests before releasing it a fact, not only an idea, it could prevent such things as not working Lightning Storm or some tag name changes
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Marshall - 12.02.2007
As Bobingabout said, I had to completely rewrite the installer in order to support Launch Base and to allow CnCVK to create future installers with RP-Gen. Unfortunately a couple of errors snuck in. I must stress that I did ask CnCVK to test the new installer before releasing it. Although I do not wish to pass the blame - we both made a couple of errors. But the installer errors, at least, have now been corrected.
Okay, so we could automatically remove expandmd02.mix, but given that RP no longer uses it, it is free to be used elsewhere. I suppose we could have staggered this, and removed the auto-deletion of expandmd02.mix in the <i>next</i> version. However, you can remove the old RP fully with the previous installer, and I wanted RP-Gen to require no further changes.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Renegade - 12.02.2007
Reserved Mix Files
It's a de facto standard in the community that mix numbers below 10 belong to add-ons, not "real" mods, and RP has used 02 long enough. Even if RP doesn't use 02 anymore, it'll be the prime candidate for a Community 1.002. Either way, whoever sets up his mod to use 02 doesn't deserve anything but auto-deletion.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Blade - 12.02.2007
Why not just continue to use expandmd02.mix in the first place? There was no real need to introduce a new mix file name as was discussed ages ago. I appreciate that some good new features have been added, and some old ones being broken or superseded is to be expected as things are improved, but a lot of the tag name changes are pointless. IMO it was a GOOD THING that the new super weapon clones were named New****, that way you knew what you were using. The TUT1 again didn't need changing as a player would never ever see it and a modder who was going to use the third campaign would know about it because all the documentation says its TUT1. I can understand rearranging the UI controlling stuff into its own section to make it easier to track new stuff in the rules.ini but some of the other stuff is not wanted or needed. CnCVK may be good at hacking the exe, but I think he needs to learn to listen the community a bit more, because some stuff he seems to think he's doing for community benefit isn't. I agree with calls for a Beta test, setup a private forum for people to discuss it with CnCVK or something and where he can release it to testers. Maybe they can tell him what name changes make sense and which are stupid before release.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Marshall - 12.02.2007
Blade Wrote:Why not just continue to use expandmd02.mix in the first place?That's what I wanted but CnCVK insisted on rockpatch.mix - I even had to make special mention of that file in the Launch Base code. Even now I still don't know what order the mix files get loaded in.
I think it's stock, expandmd01, rockpatch, expandmd02+, but I can't be sure
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - tsactuo - 12.02.2007
Guys it is just a version. Personally I don't have a big problem with tag changes, as long as they are documented good.
Let's see the next revision.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - TheMan - 12.02.2007
I agree with tsactuo, it took me 5sec to change the tag names, and the only error I found was LS storm, the older version that was made had 100 of bugs, this as less bugs, The only thing you can say in this topic is "VK, next time, talk with us about your tagnames" not FUCK FUCK FUCK and shit like that
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - pd - 12.02.2007
Exactly that insisting that Marshall stated is what drives me mad.
You can't really discuss things with CnCVK because he would insist on what he thinks, everything else is "bad".
Like Blade said, he should at least be open for advice.
And especially things like tag name changings, which make modders change code, should be discussed intensively and maybe decided by a public poll.
I don't have problems with CnCVK not following the wishlist or votelist or whatever. Well, I can't, 'cause I didn't do that either.
But meh, you get the point.
Maybe you just found "FUCK FUCK FUCK" in my post. Maybe again you didn't get my point right. This version is partially a backwards progress.
Nuke clones don't work, lightning storm clones don't work, you can't use the Nuke warhead anymore, things that used to work fine before now don't.
Yes, I removed features before. CellSpread and Train Bridges being the best examples. But I removed them to prevent other bugs.
CnCVK doesn't really have any point to "destroy" the nuke warhead, though. He still owes us a detailled explanation on this.
The problem isn't bugs, the problem is pointless changings that cause confusion and incompabilities.
I'm really waiting for a reaction by him, and I really hope it's not gonna be something like "my ideas are better than the community's".
We've heard that often enough, at least implicitly.
And if you guys, TheMan and tsactuo, don't mind at all, then I say have fun being puppets and obey your master.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - VK - 12.02.2007
Quote:My conclusion is that RPCE isn't progressing the RockPatch development, it's more like the beginning of the end of the patch.Your suggest to delete it and forgot about it, isn't it?
Seriously, this version's DL link should be removed from the site and we should go back use 1.08SE.
Quote:Third campaign TUT1 -> THD1 nowprobably this one is one thing, which really changed with no reason.
Quote:Why have an offline help anyway? What did Ren, D and me compile those ModEnc pages for? I abolished offline help files because they're hard to keep up to date. For exactly that reason above (typos, other mistakes).what's problem?
go and update ModEnc
All installers problems -> to Marshall
Quote:This sort of thing could have been discussed before, if VK just didn't keep this version a secret.what's problem, again?
I talked about ROCKPATCH.MIX before RP 1.08 SE release
Quote:So RPCE removes the Nuke clone feature?no, it's works
Quote:Warhead=Nukewill be fixed in revision.
Since new SW system, you MUST NOT use Warhead=Nuke."
Quote: I don't know why you're messing with themWhy don't you just leave them alone?I will write about it later.
Quote:I had same problem as you, its not your codes its a CE bug.Error in help again.
Quote:how this version could be fixed
it's funny, but RPCE (I hope) have small amount of bugs.Quote:Guys it is just a version. Personally I don't have a big problem with tag changes, as long as they are documented good.
Let's see the next revision.
Quote:I agree with tsactuo, it took me 5sec to change the tag names, and the only error I found was LS storm, the older version that was made had 100 of bugs, this as less bugs,
Quote:I can understand rearranging the UI controlling stuff into its own section to make it easier to track new stuff in the rules.iniAnd look into another opinions too!
Quote:but some of the other stuff is not wanted or needed.why not?
all new UISettings flags is really needs for community
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - AlliedG - 12.02.2007
As one of the few users to have throughly tested pratically all the rock patchs from its birth to 1.7 where I basically put 2 major mods on hold.
I knew there was issues in 1.8 when dominator clones started to cause crash on loading because the code had been broken and for people to say the patch was "fine" during that time when clearly people are playing without all the features.
I tested the limits of the system with multiple new countries, multiple new supers (my last version of the mod uses two nuke clones and I worked out the animations for superweapon buildings had still been not fixed, which makes new superweapon clones useless on a truly functional levels in terms of graphical display)
Any feedback for improvements that generally helped everyone and not just a pointless "for my mod I can't be arsed for workaround code so please add this statements" got put in some obscure I know no one will read this wishlist or endless bug track reports.
Yet in the wisdom of this new patch you focus on adding drop pods and ion cannons (which work perfectly fine as dominator clones) instead of sorting out the major bugs and stability issues.
The refusal of internal and online testing in all enviroments tarnishes any professional appeal of this product what so ever.
Its become a generally useful tool to a plaything with nasty leftovers like a soft toy stuffed with old razor blades.
I'm sure the big modders (I am certain from personal conversations with them) about solving random IE in there mods caused by renaming and other stupid mistakes.
I hardly post anymore because I am simply not using Rock Patch at the moment, I mod RA2 standard currently as I feel I have control over what I am modding.
Also this whole extra mix whatever files just seem kind of pointless really.
This patch should have focused on
1) stability - no random errors on loading screen, 15 minutes ingame
2) useability - one launcher to mod it all
Anything else should be a one step process with bugs reported and most importantly FIXED
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Bobingabout - 12.02.2007
as i've stressed before, the most important things, in order:
1, Stability/Bug Fixing. RPCE has improved here 7/10
2, Continuity. RPCE has gone backwards here -25/10
3, Documentation. RPCE help is full of errors 0/10
4, New Features. RPCE has some, but their usefulness is questionable 3/10 (as said, iron cannon could be done with dom clone.)
5, Ease of use. while a lot of the changes in RPCE break continuity, most of them aid ease of use. 5/10
total score, -10/50
Dispite that awfull review, its still the best RP version R:ROTC has used so far, its stable, and everything in R:ROTC works(after a few changes). it even allows me to use new superweapon tags on old unmodified superweapons, like the force shield. when someone builds a force shield generator, EVA now says "Force Shield Detected" (which i made by splicing together "Force Shield Ready/Activated" and "Warning: Neuclear Silo Detected!").
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - tsactuo - 13.02.2007
The only bad thing with CE was documentation and TFD support, nothing else. And now those are already fixed.
CnCVK said that this isn't 1.09, so guys just wait for a revision if you want more.