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+--- Thread: Proposed development of YR 1.002 Community Patch (/showthread.php?tid=20)
- Renegade - 19.02.2005
Well, many of the translated German map names are a bit...err..."uncool"...
Most of them are not translated badly in any way, but...it's just "Why??". In other words, leave the original names. That's what the authors called them, and that's what should stay. If a German makes a map and wants to give it a German name, fine. But there's no need to translate established and carefully picked names.
For the Russian version: Now that you mention it, I thought so as well...but according to Westwood's FTP, there's no Russian patch to either RA2 1.006 or YR 1.001. And I don't remember seeing one there at any time, either.
Which means, thought simple, even if there is a Russian RA2, they could not have Yuri, because it requires 1.006, and even if they MacGyvered that, they couldn't use 1.002, because our patch doesn't like non-1.001-exes.
- Marshall - 19.02.2005
Good good just checking.
So concusion:
Multiple language versions for official YR languages and nothing more.
If someone feels like translating the entire CSF for other languages then that can be done as part of a separate project (which presumably would patch langmd.mix - something that we're no longer doing. whew)
So for the translations we just need Chinese, French, German and Korean translators.
- CannisRabidus - 19.02.2005
There would be a reason to translate map names for the Chinese version, simply because of different characters. But otherwise, definitely leave the map names alone.
RVMECH has already made a Spanish version.
I posted a topic at DGNF here, and it also asks for translators. Let's see how it goes before we start bothering more people
- C00L DuDe - 19.02.2005
Renegade;date=Feb 19 2005, 07:59 PM Wrote:Well, many of the translated German map names are a bit...err..."uncool"...
Most of them are not translated badly in any way, but...it's just "Why??". In other words, leave the original names. That's what the authors called them, and that's what should stay. If a German makes a map and wants to give it a German name, fine. But there's no need to translate established and carefully picked names.
For the Russian version: Now that you mention it, I thought so as well...but according to Westwood's FTP, there's no Russian patch to either RA2 1.006 or YR 1.001. And I don't remember seeing one there at any time, either.
Which means, thought simple, even if there is a Russian RA2, they could not have Yuri, because it requires 1.006, and even if they MacGyvered that, they couldn't use 1.002, because our patch doesn't like non-1.001-exes.
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Did russian RA2 doesn't have 1.006? why not
Why there is no official patch for the russian version ?
because it Unofficial !!!
it is an edited version of an english one
and if I remember correctly it has 1.006 from unofficial source too
so maybe there is YR 1.001 too
- Marshall - 19.02.2005
If unofficial language versions of 1.001 exist and we can have their CSF files and a translator then we can make their language version of 1.002.
From a language point of view, this is how the YRCP will work:
1. lots of stuff is installed via expandmd02.mix (shps, inis, everything needed to effect most of the UMP and support the TX)
2. an XCCMC/L is used to provide updated PKT and CSF, as well as the inis needed to enable the Assault game mode and a Minor Super mode.
Ideally, we'd rather have done part 2 using a PKT and CSF inside expandmd02.mix but that is not possible.
The YRCP installation program will be in multiple language versions. What this means is that the installer dialogs will be translated, and the installer will install a specific XCCMC/L file that contains the appropriate CSF translation.
Users of the YRCP are expected to run the XCCMC/L file when playing unmodded YR.
Users can just run YR normally, but this means:
1. No assault mode
2. No minor super mode
3. No standard/team alliance map freedom
4. No fixed strings
5. No playlist modifier strings
6. No multiplayer compatibility with users who are running via XCCMC/L
Mod authors are expected to include the fixed strings in their mod (as well as the 1.002 ini stuff, etc) and the PKT entries if they wish to support the same map freedom and/or assault maps. All that info will be provided in the YRCP dev pack.
Dev pack info will be geared towards XCCMC/L.
- Marshall - 20.02.2005
Sorry to double post, but I want this next bit of info to be distinctly separated from that above.
I need some people to help out with YRCP related stuff!
Below is a list of things that I need investigating:
1. "Did you restore the smoking animation of an apoc's guns from the original RA2 that dissapeared in YR?"
I'm not sure on the details of what's wrong, why it's wrong and how to fix it, however it seems that there is an animation that was in RA2 that isn't in YR.
2. Rubble on many buildings is in the wrong palette.
What are the problem buildings?
Why is it in the wrong palette?
Can it be corrected?
What's the damage in increased filesize as a result of fixing it?
Is it worth fixing?
3. LAND RUSH - infantry pips!
Need confirmation that the infantry pips are indeed changed by the INI Override bug.
All modified Infantry entries need restated pip values.
4. LAND RUSH - yuri's dog situation.
Does Yuri get dogs at start? What about the select all of type issue?
5. hidden object indicators on some buildings are screwed up
The Tech Airport has been fixed but nothing else has.
Quite frankly, I don't care about this. There is so much stuff to look at and test and fiddle with, and I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't use 'Show Hidden Objects' anyway. In Purple, the installer has a default-enabled option to turn off show hidden objects, and I'm inclined to add it to the YRCP too. Opinions?
6. some bridge huts on some maps don't work... provide fixed versions
I haven't got time to test everything. If and when someone discovers a problem, could they at least say they've found a problem, and if possible provide a fixed version of the map. [official maps only of course].
7. fix the maps that have no water but you can still build naval yards
See (6.)
8. artmd.ini mistakes - find out if they really do belong in the main fixes
The mistakes being referred to are:
The entry [NAPSYB] has a flag "CanBeHidden-False".
Presumably, the hyphen should be an equals sign. The actual effect in-game has not been tested.
The entry [CANWY26] has the flags:
DamageFireOffset0=100,-53
DamageFireOffset0-37,33
Presumably, the second line should read "DamageFireOffset1=37,33" although, again, the actual effect in-game has not been tested.
9. port TX fix: "Bio-reactor animation shadow altered to avoid errant spot appearing when full"
Whilst I was going to include this, I've realised that the Bio Reactor isn't the only building with "errant spots" in it's shadow imagery.
I can't see us including fixed versions of all of them, so I'm inclined not to bother including the Bio Reactor fix.
If the TX guys want to include this particular fix then that might be better - the bigger filesize TX fixes the nitty gritty - in which case the TX guys can consider adding fixed versions of other buildings.
The generic Polish flag and the fixed Weather Controller will be included in the YRCP however, so should not be necessary in the TX anymore.
9. That whole business with the TX terrain control inis I mentioned earlier. I need to get in touch with the TX guys for this (and number 8. too)
10. Cannis, what exactly is wrong with the Robot Control Center? And what do I need to change to fix it?
That's it, in terms of code and graphics.
The rest of the YRCP todo list includes:
I. Rewrite Dev Pack.
II. Include exe patch info in dev pack.
III. Write and test installer
IV. Testing by anyone who wants to help with testing.
V. RC compiled.
VI. Multiple language versions.
- Renegade - 20.02.2005
If there are unofficial patches for the Russian version, this leads to questions...
How were they done? Are they simple mini-mods or patches like ours?
If the latter, why did the commies not share their hacking-techniques?
If they are "real" (unofficial) patches, wouldn't they not work with 1.002, because the .exe doesn't fit?
If they are "real" patches, and spread enough that we foreigners thought of them as normal, wouldn't that mean we have a precedent for ignored community-patches by WW/EA?
Yet, to be honest, I doubt they are real patches. I bet it's nothing but a translated CSF and a new cameo-set. Especially since I doubt they had a "1.000-Patch" for both games. Alas, I know nothing. Either way could help us. Aren't there any Russians around here?
- Blade - 20.02.2005
Marshall;date=Feb 19 2005, 11:18 PM Wrote:9. port TX fix: "Bio-reactor animation shadow altered to avoid errant spot appearing when full"
Whilst I was going to include this, I've realised that the Bio Reactor isn't the only building with "errant spots" in it's shadow imagery.
I can't see us including fixed versions of all of them, so I'm inclined not to bother including the Bio Reactor fix.
If the TX guys want to include this particular fix then that might be better - the bigger filesize TX fixes the nitty gritty - in which case the TX guys can consider adding fixed versions of other buildings.
The generic Polish flag and the fixed Weather Controller will be included in the YRCP however, so should not be necessary in the TX anymore.
9. That whole business with the TX terrain control inis I mentioned earlier. I need to get in touch with the TX guys for this (and number 8. too)
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While I know some other stuff has errant shadow spots, only the bio reactor has one that changes in the general use of the building to the point I noticed it (since it changes between full and not full). It also has the bizzare base change when full/empty on snow theater.
Also, I have had a look at the problem with bits of the weather control device not appearing. I think it is because they fall outside the bounds of the foundation. Adding a few rows of pixels to the bottom of the shp should correct that.
On the subject of building fixes, I would like to see the animated gap generator included as well if cannis was ameanable to it. It was clearly an intended feature that got knocked back late on in RA2 development since it still has an entry in the animations list.
- DCoder - 20.02.2005
Marshall Wrote:1. "Did you restore the smoking animation of an apoc's guns from the original RA2 that dissapeared in YR?"
I'm not sure on the details of what's wrong, why it's wrong and how to fix it, however it seems that there is an animation that was in RA2 that isn't in YR.
3. LAND RUSH - infantry pips!
Need confirmation that the infantry pips are indeed changed by the INI Override bug.
All modified Infantry entries need restated pip values.
5. hidden object indicators on some buildings are screwed up
The Tech Airport has been fixed but nothing else has.
Quite frankly, I don't care about this. There is so much stuff to look at and test and fiddle with, and I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't use 'Show Hidden Objects' anyway. In Purple, the installer has a default-enabled option to turn off show hidden objects, and I'm inclined to add it to the YRCP too. Opinions?
6. some bridge huts on some maps don't work... provide fixed versions
I haven't got time to test everything. If and when someone discovers a problem, could they at least say they've found a problem, and if possible provide a fixed version of the map. [official maps only of course].
7. fix the maps that have no water but you can still build naval yards
See (6.)
1. I went over the rules.ini and compared it to rulesmd.ini. There is absolutely no difference in this aspect. When rookie, the Apoc plays APMUZZLE , when elite, it plays VTMUZZLE (standard elite flash). APMUZZLE does indeed look smokey, but I can't recall if it is actually missing in YR. (XCC shows it only exists inside ra2.mix) Will check.
3. Confirmed by DeeZire himself.
5. I never use the "Show Hidden" option, I don't give a damn about what happens with it.
6/7. I can check the maps, at least some of them.
Renegade Wrote:I bet it's nothing but a translated CSF and a new cameo-set.That, plus the localized audio.bag/idx, and the cracked ra2.exe/yuri.exe. I had several russian versions, I can say that for sure.
- Marshall - 20.02.2005
@Blade, I see you're right of course. Very well, I shall include your fixed bio reactor shps (but note that your ygpowr_a.shp is clearly using the arctic shadow. I have fixed this and will include it in the YRCP).
Regarding the Weather Controller - great! can you fix it?
I still need to check out the polish flag loop blip.
But once that's done, the TX should no longer need to include any shps (if you still want to include them in the TX, could you at least replace ygpowr_a.shp with my fixed one?)
Regarding the animated gap gen, it's not really a bug so I don't think it should be forced upon the user. I suppose it could be included as a resource that modders could make use of (provided we had the author's permission) however, it would essentially be providing it with the YRCP instead of with the mods that want to use it. If someone never plays a mod that uses it then they didn't need the resource.
Similarly, I love your new yuri sidebar and I plan to include it in my mod, but not the YRCP, given it's filesize.
If PixelOps or some other central-resource-site gets picked up then such resources should be made available there.
Finally, Blade, what's the score ragarding that TX ini idea I had several posts again?
@DCoder,
1. Okay, thanks! Keep me apprised!
3. Very well, I shall set about fixing the mode file.
5. Good.
6/7. Much appreciated!
Regarding "non-standard" langauge versions:
If we can confirm that a language exists that can accept 1.002, then all we need to do is provide a simple translation in line with those for the "standard" language versions.
I believe that's as far as we should go.
This of course requires, say, an english version whose langmd.mix file has been unofficially patched into, say, a russian version (and that no other changes have been made).
Whew, these posts are getting long.
Hopefully now they should start to get shorter as more of the CP is completed.
I've nearly finished rewriting the Dev Pack.
- CannisRabidus - 20.02.2005
Quote:the inis needed to enable the Assault game modeWhat are you doing about FakeC4?
Quote:4. LAND RUSH - yuri's dog situation.Can't really fix this unless you do a CR-type dogs mod.
Does Yuri get dogs at start? What about the select all of type issue?
Quote:In Purple, the installer has a default-enabled option to turn off show hidden objects, and I'm inclined to add it to the YRCP too. Opinions?My opinion is, and I think most players would agree: Leave my settings alone. I set them as I set them for a reason.
Quote:9. That whole business with the TX terrain control inis I mentioned earlier. I need to get in touch with the TX guys for thisWhy would you need terrain inis? The TX will have them. Or am I missing something?
Quote:10. Cannis, what exactly is wrong with the Robot Control Center? And what do I need to change to fix it?Bah, make me go search for my own posts on other forums why don't you.
- Missing damaged animation for the Robot Control Center, plus other fixes.
The animations for the RCC suffer from incomplete and incorrect code. The code for the normal animation plays 19 of the 20 frames (1 is skipped), the shadow anims are never played, and the damaged anim never appears at all. What you see in the game when the RCC is damaged is the normal anim playing over the damaged building (which is why the antennas are mismatched)... and then 4(!
fire anims are plastered over this mess. First, go into RULESMD.INI and add GAROBO_AD to the end (not somewhere in the middle!
of the [Animations] list, since it is missing. Then, in ARTMD.INI, change these 3 sections so they look just like this:
Code:
[GAROBO]
Remapable=yes
Cameo=RBCCICON
Foundation=2x2
Height=4
Buildup=GAROBOMK
DemandLoadBuildup=true
FreeBuildup=true
NewTheater=yes
ActiveAnim=GAROBO_A
ActiveAnimDamaged=GAROBO_AD
ActiveAnimZAdjust=-50
ActiveAnimYSort=543
CanHideThings=True
CanBeHidden=False
OccupyHeight=1
AddOccupy1=-1,0
AddOccupy2=0,-1
AddOccupy3=-1,-1
DamageFireOffset0=-20,23
DamageFireOffset1=18,35
[GAROBO_A]
NewTheater=yes
Normalized=yes
Start=0
LoopStart=0
LoopEnd=20
LoopCount=-1
Rate=220
Layer=ground
Shadow=yes
DoubleThick=true
[GAROBO_AD]
Image=GAROBO_A
Normalized=yes
Start=20
LoopStart=20
LoopEnd=40
LoopCount=-1
Rate=220
Layer=ground
Shadow=yes
DoubleThick=trueQuote:On the subject of building fixes, I would like to see the animated gap generator included as well if cannis was ameanable to it.It was a pain in the ass to make. Let me own it as a CR feature for a while.
- Big Jah - 20.02.2005
Renegade;date=Feb 20 2005, 03:40 AM Wrote:If there are unofficial patches for the Russian version, this leads to questions...
How were they done? Are they simple mini-mods or patches like ours?
If the latter, why did the commies [dont talk this way] not share their hacking-techniques?
If they are "real" (unofficial) patches, wouldn't they not work with 1.002, because the .exe doesn't fit?
If they are "real" patches, and spread enough that we foreigners thought of them as normal, wouldn't that mean we have a precedent for ignored community-patches by WW/EA?
Yet, to be honest, I doubt they are real patches. I bet it's nothing but a translated CSF and a new cameo-set. Especially since I doubt they had a "1.000-Patch" for both games. Alas, I know nothing. Either way could help us. Aren't there any Russians around here?
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I am russian. There are some translated versions, which have ?altered? the game font to support cyrillic letters... But I dont know how, maybe it was already supported... And most of them suck because of bad cameos...
- Marshall - 20.02.2005
@Big Jah
In Renegade's defense, I'm reasonably certain his comment was in jest (after all, Red Alert 2 refers to the Russians/Soviets in this way).
@Renegade
However, some people might take offense, particularly if the fact that English is not their first language causes them to fail to realise that the comment was in jest.
On the topic of languages, what I said above holds. Because of this, I doubt that there will be foreign language versions of the YRCP except those that were officially supported up to YR 1.001.
@Cannis
FakeC4? I'm guessing that FakeC4 can destroy the flag whereas true C4 can't. In my opinion (and indeed, in my mod), true C4 should be able to destroy the flag. After all, if it's a critical structure it's your own silly fault if you don't build a wall around it or provide sufficient defense to stop a few infantry.
I don't see how we can stop FakeC4 destroying the flag without using a different armor type. I would suggest allowing true C4 to destroy the flag.
Note that the Assault mode will only be enabled when running the YRCP launcher, or another mod that supports it. As such, it's up to the modder. All we're deciding here is the 'unmodded YR version of Assault mode'.
Regarding the Assault flag imagery, I'd like to include the generic flag shps that (I believe) you made, so that anyone wanting to support Assault mode can use that imagery (they can still make their own if they'd prefer). Is this okay?
Land Rush. My point is, does Yuri get dogs or not? I think he might still get dogs. If he doesn't, then maybe he should get [YDOG]s?
Regarding hidden objects, I agree with you. It will be left alone entirely.
9. I'm just wondering if including the terrain control ini files could stop reconnection errors between TX users and non-TX users?
10. Thanks for that, I'll set about implementing it now.
- DCoder - 20.02.2005
Just to note, the CSF (which the entire interface is built on) is in Unicode. So adding cyrillic/chinese/w/e chars is not hard.
- Renegade - 20.02.2005
...which is why we can add ?s, ?s and ?s without a problem
(ph33r the ?g?iskreuzer)
@Big Jah: I'm sorry. I was kidding. I didn't think anybody would take it seriously.
(People should know by now that I'm neither racist nor intolerant in any way.
)So, both Big Jah and DCoder: Can you give a definite statement of what the Russian patches are?
- Are they mods?
- Are they real, official patches?
- Are they modified (cracked) official patches?
- Or are they patches like our CP?
D talked about cracked .exes and Big Jah about bad cameos, so I'm sure it's not official, but a clear statement what they really are would help us plan