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+--- Thread: WHAT the hell is going on? (/showthread.php?tid=633)
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Marshall - 13.02.2007
CnCVK Wrote:However, I did not request him about totally rewriting installer.I really hope that I can count on CnCVK's patronage of Launch Base when it is released. Perhaps at that time he, and others, will understand why re-writing the installer was necessary.
Plus, RP-Gen required some installer rewrites - I hope that CnCVK, and by extension everyone else since it will speed up new releases and allow them all to be new replacement installers, will appreciate the time and effort I put into this.
CnCVK Wrote:Did you include special mention about MAIN.MIX file?What the hell is MAIN.MIX?!? I don't recall anyone ever mentioning that!
Is this yet another thing that Launch Base / RP-Gen needs to think about?
CnCVK Wrote:RandMap.mapWhat is RandMap.map? This does not appear to be documented anywhere...
Again, it sounds like something that Launch Base will need to be aware of.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - MadHQ - 13.02.2007
You suck! RP blows! CvCVK doesnt know what he's doing. CvCVK only dose what he think is right. BLA! BLA! BLA! FUCKING BLA!!
Alright! will every whiny baby in this topic shut up! I don't think any one but PaD has a right to say a damn thing about RP and even at that i don't know that PaD has any right to say to much as he quit working on RP. PaD if you have a problem i would suggest that you give advice by other means then making a flaming topic such as this. Anyways! Unless one of you can do what they can do, you need to shove it! Yes i know you all want RP to be 100% but there are some things that are gonna come up bad. every one makes mistakes.
CvCVK should be able to do this HOW HE WANTS TO! HE IS THE ONE DOING IT, NOT YOU! I for one am happy just to see that he is willing to spend his valuable time working on it. If he feels he should re-name a tag so what! Yes i personally have my problems with it but I'm not gonna flame him or any one else just because some things not right.
I for one have RPCE installed and have played it with my mod and i haven't found any IE's, But I'm not using any SW clones. So just to say that this version is unstable is bullshit! Yes it has problems with a few things but that doesn't mean this version is crap. and if you don't like it use the version that you prefer. Yes this limits to the amount of new features you can use but if you don't want to deal with IE's or problems then don't use the newer ones.
@AG If you have a problem with bobings post's then just dont read them. You are about the only one that seems to make a big point about him posting what he wants. What is a message board you don't ask? well i shall tell you. Message - a note of some kind, to inform people. Board - a group of topics with posts in them, that holds views, opinions, and info about what ever the person typeing has to say.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Bobingabout - 13.02.2007
minor note:
Bored = fed up
Board is the word you are looking for
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - AlliedG - 14.02.2007
We all have opinions and you argue them back for all I care but the point is this patch does suck in its current form and I know its not properly tested when released otherwise this whole TFD issue and other stupid bugs would have been sorted out ages ago.
People need to voice there opinions be it aggressive/negative, to proof that people do not like how this patch has "evolved"
Also about bobing posts and his comments, clearly you don't even look at your own threads  that you post MadHQ.
http://forums.revora.net/index.php?showtopic=45340
Its called hijacking and its bloody annoying and since no ignore function (or if there is I don't use it because sometimes bobingabout actually has something useful to say e.g. post 27)
Also MadHQ your a casual user of the Rock Patch, if you actually used every feature then you would understand why A LOT of people of people are pissed off but unfortunatly keep it to themselves or ask me to express there opinions. If you don't use every feature of the patch then don't try and defend it.
No point in having a patch with millions of new options if they conflict with.
1. each other
2. existing code
Everyone remembers how utterly unplayable RP 1.5 was with stupid tank bunker issues.
Also Mouse Cursor animations fixed. Does that actually mean they animate on there own? Instead of showing one frame unless how down left click? If so that is progress...
Also this
2, 0/10  Continuity.Not compatible with older versions.
Do you know how big certain mod projects have become? Like MO or RS. Can you imagine the bug hunting?
You don't even have documentation or some form of patcher to fix ini issues/changes.
There was enough retarded people of RP that couldn't even work out how to install/use new tags. You don't need to make it any more complex.
Also CNCVK making it for himself? Fine, but if its a buggy, russian roulette patch then he can keep it on his pc of playground experiments.
I want something which actually works when a modder spends 1% effort on a mod.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - OmegaBolt - 14.02.2007
Maybe we are all just too dependent on the RP. Clearly it isn't suiting us so lets just not use it. A protest if you like.
And Bobing don't dare say "CDA this, my ass that" because nobody cares to hear it in every other post.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - wthigon - 14.02.2007
Some major players here saying what they believe. Now all we need is MO in here then it'll be a party.
Oh and Bobing, you shouldn't mention your mod all the time. Most of the people here are tired of seeing every post of yours mention your mod.
P.S. AG is my hero and he gives me cake.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Bobingabout - 14.02.2007
AG does make some pretty nice points there....
that 0/10 for continuity is well deserved.
and cncvk putting 10/10 for ease of use? sure if you starting from scratch, but with a continuity of 0/10 the MAXIMUM you can give for ease of use is 5/10, because of all the editing you need to do. as AG said, some people have a hard enough time installing it, look at how many people didn't know what a .rar archive was! sure its pretty easy for seasoned modders making a new mod, but, i feel AGs pain, he used everything in 1.07 atleast once, i think he has like 25 superweapons per mod, in 3 mods to bring upto RPCE specs. now that is a lot of work.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Blade - 14.02.2007
I'm tired of seeing people demand backward compatibility. I agree that where the function stays the same, the tags should stay the same, but if some feature doesn't work correctly or causes some other bug, then yes it should be changed. The patch is a work in progress and as such ANY ONE who makes a mod based on it has their mod as a work in progress for as long as this patch is. If they want to finish their mods and move on, then just use vanilla YR.
My main 'suggestion' to CnCVK is that he just listen to the community a bit more on issues like naming. There was a discussion on using rockpatch.mix and it was decided that expandmd02 was the way to go (afterall, WW designed that mix system exactly for the purpose of future patches). Now rockpatch.mix appears to load before the expandmd##.mix files (the new info page helpfully seems to show the load order of the mix files), what if at some point the rock patch needs to override something in expandmd01.mix?
Personally I'm quite happy with the RPCE once I look beyond the changes of a few tags, it does seem more stable that previous versions and a lot of bugs with new logic seems to have been fixed. The new superweapons could do with being a big more customisable to overcome what I consider minor bugs with them, but its nice to have them. Not everything works perfectly, but once code is adjusted to meet the tag changes, everything that worked previously still works I believe and we have some more stuff to play with.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Renegade - 14.02.2007
CnCVK Wrote:Quote:The only bad thing with CE was documentation and >The Fucking DVD< support, nothing else. And now those are already fixed.absolute right
if you look at it more careful - you find what bugs are:
1)AITargetingType tag
2)LStorm small problems
3)NUKE warhead problem
...all, isn't it?
CnCVK Wrote:I count 20 open bugs on the bug tracker, the oldest one still open having been submitted 20.06.06 04:46.Quote:After that all the clones and other stuff got fucked up.all is working
I know it's entirely possible, and even quite probable that you already fixed half of them and just couldn't be arsed to mark it, but the fact stands - for an almost bug-free released, there's a whole lot of red in the bug-list.
Oh, and don't you dare just closing them all now
We know that trick already. Correctly, honestly update their status.Not mention that "all is working" is worthless if the documentation is so horrible nobody can implement the working features.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - AlliedG - 14.02.2007
ROFL at Blade, some people actually intend to finish mods (Mental Omega is a prime example) unlike leaving there mod on permanent on hold basis because they can't be arsed to update thus no feedback/interest if they have some news announcement, etc  *rolls eyes*
Perhaps RP compatiable mod should just have a version of the old RP exe attached to it ... e.g. only use 1.07b for this mod ...
Also Blade your a modder who has been around long enough in the community, your WIP arguement is a load of nonsense, I could say your deezire pre-release soviet lab was WIP and how you couldn't be arsed to fix it/update it even after I mention the 255 white color issue which occurs at low lighting levels 7 years ago on Eclipse Network forums.
Renaming stuff which is unessecary or inconsistent e.g. 4th not Fourth for instance is a pain is annoying. Non documentation or missing, incomplete documentation is a pain in the arse. Regressing back to offline help files when ModEnc dedicated files exist.
Inadequate testing (last time I checked testing requires normally more then one person) means the patch will cause IE or strange and noticeable bugs on a regular basis.
We are not demanding backwards compability, we are just asking for common sense ...
(1) not to randomly change tag names when they work fine
(2) justify changes and detailed explanations (perfect example as shown in post 41)
(3) testing or invites for proper testing on LAN/Online/Skirmish/Campaign, etc
(4) better co-operation between patcher and installer personnel
(5) not to add a million new additions.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Bobingabout - 14.02.2007
the main beaf with the compatibility isn't with removing obsolete features, its changing tags when replacing code(sometimes even when not replacing code, such as adding the UISettings header, when most people already added them to the top of [General] section, where they were easy to spot. and the needless change of the tag ShowThirdButton) when the old tags worked just fine, and woud have worked with the new code.
1 thing that has been bugging me that i want to ask about (because the documentation sux.):
what is [HotSpotX],[HotSpotY]? what do they do? why do they exist?
Quote:HotSpotX and HotSpotY can be "0", "12345", "54321".yer, like that explains a lot... it doesn't say what they are there for, nor what they do. and it doesn't tell you what the numbers mean. Why only 0, 54321 and 12345? what difference does it make in each situation??
there is absolutly no explanation to why these values have been added, nor what they do, only that the section header has been changed (needlessly) and 2 values added to the end of each action.
[Rambling]ok, adding these 2 new values might justify changing the header to cause IEs on everyones new superweapons to force modders to look back at the code. however, if CnCVK made the default for these missing values 0, (or better yet 12345 if you read what i typed further down), and kept the header name as it was before, then some superweapons(such as Type=Fire) would have still worked in RPCE, maintaining atleast some compatibility(well, it would have if he didn't also change the AITargetingType to zero based instead of 1 based. IMO its too late to change it back now, atleast for CE revisions)[/Rambling]
however, going by the differences between RP versions, i am GUESSING that it has something to do with curser animation (although, how the word hotspot relates to animation is beyond me), where 0= no animation, 12345= forward animation and 54321= backwards animation.
but what are X and Y? is 1 main curser, and the other minimap? is X what happens first, then Y what happens next? X could be normal, and Y when mouse pressed?
I'm GUESSING AGAIN that 12345,12345 means play forwards in an infinite loop, 12345,0 means play forwards once then stop, and 12345,54321 means play in ping pong style, forwards then backwards then forwards, ect.
the documentation explains nothing, this was all guessing (and i havn't tested it yet).
all it requires is an extra line or 2 in the help.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Renegade - 14.02.2007
Bobingabout Wrote:however, going by the differences between RP versions, i am GUESSING that it has something to do with curser animation (although, how the word hotspot relates to animation is beyond me), where 0= no animation, 12345= forward animation and 54321= backwards animation.Given the numbers, I assume it has nothing to do with this, but in mouse cursor editing (e.g. for windows), "hotspot" means the point where the click happens, i.e. the head of an arrow or the center of a cross. The graphical coordinates used as the position of the cursor.
However, those are usually full two-dimensional coordinates. Not just 0, 12345, 54321. Your theory does make sense. I'm just throwing it in because the words "mouse cursor" and "hotspot" are indeed closely connected.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Bobingabout - 14.02.2007
that is a good theory, and probably more likely than mine, but still, i need CnCVK's explanation, because, we are both just GUESSING. the numbers could be more meaningful though, IE, valid numbers 0-100, being a percentage of width and height, or the actual co-ordinates of the pointer image. if he wants only 3 steps, 0, 50 and 100, meaning left/top, centre and right/bottom
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Blade - 14.02.2007
AlliedG Wrote:ROFL at Blade, some people actually intend to finish mods (Mental Omega is a prime example) unlike leaving there mod on permanent on hold basis because they can't be arsed to update thus no feedback/interest if they have some news announcement, etc *rolls eyes*
That's a fair comment, and so is mine that if you plan on finishing something soon, don't have a dependency on something that isn't finished and then complain when that dependency changes and breaks compatibility. If you want the extra features of the RP, then you need to be prepared to go back and fix compatibility with maintenance releases.
Quote:Perhaps RP compatiable mod should just have a version of the old RP exe attached to it ... e.g. only use 1.07b for this mod ...
Maybe, there are arguments for and against that approach.
Quote:Also Blade your a modder who has been around long enough in the community, your WIP arguement is a load of nonsense, I could say your deezire pre-release soviet lab was WIP and how you couldn't be arsed to fix it/update it even after I mention the 255 white color issue which occurs at low lighting levels 7 years ago on Eclipse Network forums.
I'd agree with you, it is a WIP. I've said many times that people are free to fix that themselves and distribute it though. I'd feel the same way about a mod I'd made if I made it clear I wasn't working on it anymore and wasn't going to fix compatibility myself. That's another reason I don't agree with using crap like leechkiller... how the hell is someone else going to fix problems with my mod if I decide I don't want to?
Quote:Renaming stuff which is unessecary or inconsistent e.g. 4th not Fourth for instance is a pain is annoying. Non documentation or missing, incomplete documentation is a pain in the arse. Regressing back to offline help files when ModEnc dedicated files exist.
I agree, but these are administrative issues rather than bugs with the code. Its not like the WW code itself is totally consistent and their documentation has many mistakes in it as well.
Quote:Inadequate testing (last time I checked testing requires normally more then one person) means the patch will cause IE or strange and noticeable bugs on a regular basis.
We are not demanding backwards compability, we are just asking for common sense ...
I agree more testing should be done and again this is an administrative issue that CnCVK should really look into IMO. There may also be some difference in what people interpret as requests for common sense and what they interpret as demands.
Quote:(1) not to randomly change tag names when they work fine
(2) justify changes and detailed explanations (perfect example as shown in post 41)
(3) testing or invites for proper testing on LAN/Online/Skirmish/Campaign, etc
(4) better co-operation between patcher and installer personnel
(5) not to add a million new additions.
1. I think most people agree with that, but there are justifications.
2. CnCVK can teach or he can do. It needs a balance and the more time he is talking explaining and justifying, the less time he is patching in new features.
3. Agreed
4. That is being worked on and is an administrative issue that isn't even really handled by CnCVK. His job in this whole project is to add new features so that modders can use them. He could just stick the modified exe up and say 'here, go figure out how to use it'.
5. And there was me thinking that people wanted new features adding. I think its clear that at this stage, the patch isn't stable and doesn't have a finalised feature set and it may never have. See comments on basing stable finished mod projects on it above in that case. I think what you mean is a balance between new features and eliminating bugs. Better Beta testing before public release would benefit here.
RE: WHAT the hell is going on? - Bobingabout - 14.02.2007
AlliedG Wrote:(1) not to randomly change tag names when they work fine
(2) justify changes and detailed explanations (perfect example as shown in post 41)
(3) testing or invites for proper testing on LAN/Online/Skirmish/Campaign, etc
(4) better co-operation between patcher and installer personnel
(5) not to add a million new additions.
Blade Wrote:1. I think most people agree with that, but there are justifications.i think 3 and 5 should be merged.
2. CnCVK can teach or he can do. It needs a balance and the more time he is talking explaining and justifying, the less time he is patching in new features.
3. Agreed
4. That is being worked on and is an administrative issue that isn't even really handled by CnCVK. His job in this whole project is to add new features so that modders can use them. He could just stick the modified exe up and say 'here, go figure out how to use it'.
5. And there was me thinking that people wanted new features adding. I think its clear that at this stage, the patch isn't stable and doesn't have a finalised feature set and it may never have. See comments on basing stable finished mod projects on it above in that case. I think what you mean is a balance between new features and eliminating bugs. Better Beta testing before public release would benefit here.
"testing or invites for proper testing on LAN/Online/Skirmish/Campaign, not to add a million new additions."
i once said, not too long ago, that we should have a rotational period of 2 months adding new stuff, then a month of testing and bug fixing. if RPCE wasn't an official release, it'd be a nice beta for 1.09.
question, how possible would it be to make Multi-Engineer checkbox and TechLevel slider work in multiplayer?