Leech Killer will kill this community!

[~Mars~]

Intresting info here.
DCoder what DLL are you working on? Are you going to help pd with Rockpatch2s dlls?

[Blade]

It is a dll containing functions for handling mix files. It is needed by launch base.

[~Mars~]

so he is working on super leech killer?

[DCoder]

You could say that, yes. It also does stuff like packing files into a MIX and extracting them.

[~Another_Guest~]

Super leech killer is a disaster to the major community. People who take(dont call it steal!) dont make public release anyway. Like me.
About 5 people get caught per year.

[DCoder]

Administrative Notice:

Split.

My leechKiller-tool (Which I'm going to call MixScramble, btw, not Super Leech Killer) will happen. Fell free to debate its merits and downfalls, but I am not going to destroy it.

[pd]

There is no way that this Leech Killer will destroy this community.
It is those people who take things out of other mods to make their n00b mods that destroy this community.

If you don't release the mods, fine, nobody will bully you as nobody knows about it.
I think it's your good right to take stuff for personal use.
But it's also the right of the authors of the mod assets to have their stuff protected.
You will have to accept that fact.

[Marshall]

I concur with pd. If you need access to resources for private use (or public) then there are places to get them. And whilst I personally have no objection to people using assets I have created in private mods, I wouldn't want some of my creations appearing in public mods. There are plenty of people out there who will take without asking, and worse, without credit.

Theft is outlawed but policing the Internet is like trying to nail fog to a wall. Preventing theft seems more effective in this case.

If a private mod author claims that their mod is not possible (or, more correctly, won't be as good) without taking other mod's assets, how in any sense is that damaging the community when the mod will not be seen by the community?
Even if you are using it as a learning experience you don't need other mod's assets in order to learn.

[Blade]

I am personally against the use of the various mix scrambling programs largely because I feel it constitutes a form of DRM, which I oppose strongly for various reasons I won't go into. I think that the community does a good enough job of policing itself for this kind of thing without needing to throw up technological barriers. Besides if you understand the mix format (its documented on Olaf's site) then you can extract anything you want from it any how as all the files are stored in plain text and are not encrypted. That's not to say it isn't difficult however.

I will say on the subject of theft that taking copies of assets and using them in your own mod is NOT theft and I think its very important to realise the distinction. It is copyright infringements and if not credited properly it is plagiarism as well, but it is not theft. Only property (as in tangible goods) can be stolen as the act of theft deprives you of the use of it. Copying something doesn't suddenly stop it working in the original mod does it?

[Bobingabout]

I personally won't use leach killer, however, I'm not opposed to it either.

its like placing anti-copy protection on CDs and DVDs, its just annoying, since, ordinary people can't back-up their games, but, if you REALLY want to get at the stuff in there, EG, pro game piraters, it's not going to stop you. copy protected games either have a crack/patch, or, are copied using software that can actually copy the copy protection, some hardware has built in protection against being able to write it now, but, you either get a drive that doesn't, or, there are also ROM hacks, so you can re-flash your writer etc.
same with leach killer, PD told us that he easily un-protected a protected mix. as for DCoder's MixScramble, that's a little more complicated.

[gordon-creAtive]

(DCoder, could you add a poll to this thread?)

I personally don't like any kind of copyprotection. I understand why these protections are necessary, but I'm a friend of liberalism. Controlling everything doesn't prevent stealing, as seen @ PirateBay for example. I'm pretty sure, DCoders LeechKiller is a masterpiece of code, but this was also said about the HD-Copyprotection.

I also wonder if a leechkiller is really necessary. The idiots who tried to steal stuff and ended here. It still works, these people are hardly accepted by the community now. "Open" MIX files will help the so-called "n00bs" to improve their knowledge.
Sorry D.


PS: lol, I wrote "b00bs" instead of "n00bs"

[DCoder]

I never said MixScramble would be a silver bullet. After all, MIX files don't implement compression so all files are still easy to access with a hex editor and competence. But as LeechKiller showed, there is a demand for such a tool. Mind that mod authors might desire to protect stuff other than art - Cannis and Fen want to protect their AI assets and custom made art, Andre (D-Day) wanted to keep secret a "workaround" for the 100 unit bug back whenever even before LK showed up, Apollo and Speeder don't want people copy-pasting their units with graphic effects, and so on.
By the way, blacklisting people only affects their reputation on sites that actually care - Tactical Trance/Advancer took TS Retro's custom assets and other people's work despite their readmes explicitly forbidding such "borrowing", and published it. PPM banned him, so he posted his "work" to other sites like CNCDEN, where he actually found supporters believing that TS Retro had no right to forbid someone from distributing their work.

(What should the poll be? "Is LeechKiller good or bad?")

[~Goldfinger~]

LeechKiller is not needed. I think it better without those tools. If some one upload there mod without premission, he should get DNS banned from here,revora and PPM. And he is gone forever and he will never get any help.
Thats it. But there is very few that get caught. So IMO its not a big problem.

It is like CNC3, they encrypted there .big files. And no one likes it. EA are ridiculus.
Some(few) YR modders are just like EA!

[DCoder]

We've had this forum for months, even years. Where have all the guests been hiding until now?

[gordon-creAtive]

I though about

Is a MixScrambler really necessary?

• "Yes, it prevents stealing"
  
• "No, it is not necessary"
  
• "No, it is the wrong way to solve the problem"

- as an example -

The result of the poll should not prevent you from releasing your tool, I just want to discuss and see the general opinion of the community. I don't want anyone to not release such a tool, I just told the reasons why I wouldn't do this.
I personally will not use it, if I ever finish my mod, reasons above.