Multiple non-conflicting mods

[Renegade]

You'd both be right...weren't we assuming Microsoft Windows as the operating system.

@Marsh: We'll see. What you describe still sounds extremely bloated and overly complicated to me, but if you can make it simple, I'll be the last one to complain.

After all, there's no way you could force me to use the new system

[DCoder]

It seems there are actually three places where file storage methods are questionable:

1. Author generates Mod via Installer
2. User installs Mod
3. User launches Mod

My previous posts referring to "Install Options" were about #1, while some of your comments about "Install Options" might have been about #2. As I see it, #1 definitely calls for a single file, and depending on the Author's and/or User's choice, either #2 or #3 unpack that file to ready-to-copy state and generate BAGs, CSFs, etc. I for one would love being able to unpack mods to ready-to-copy state on installation, instead of wasting time to do that each time I want to run them.

[Marshall]

1. Author generates executable installer (single file) via Install-Maker (or other install-maker package of their own choice). CSFs and MIXes are generated on author's computer, not the end users'.

2. User installs mod - Executable installer unpacks files to appropriate subfolder within Launch Base directory. (Files are now unpacked and ready to copy)

3. User can launch [already unpacked] mod by opening Launch Base and selecting the desired mod from the list.

I planned to generate the audio.bag file on Launch rather than on install - this is because the user may not want the extra space taken up by several audio.bag files. This is why I planned on the option of saving audio.bags, so that after they were generated, Launch Base retained them for later use. This is a user option, not an author option.

[Bobingabout]

what marsh said sounds good, however, you can't seriously be considering calling the install maker "Install-Maker" that name is already taken. call it launch base install maker, or yrmod install maker or something.

although i supose 2 things can have the same name. look at easy-pc. its a PCB design program, and also a guide that teaches you how to use a computer.

[Marshall]

My Leonard of Quirm naming scheme is awful, granted. When the time comes to decide on a name I will come up with something better, suggestions welcome.

[Renegade]

MODS
Mod Organization and Distribution System

[Bobingabout]

i was talking to DCoder a few days ago about .bag files. instead of storing the information in a folder containing all the .wav files, it could contain an update.bag and update.idx (or whatever name, DCoder used an example something like bobcrap.bag). DCoders bag system could then be used to merge it with the original. the biggest problem he said is extracting the original from the game. however, this is a problem that will need to be solved at some point anyway, since if DCoders bag builder doesn't extract it, the mod installer will need to.

[Marshall]

Good idea.

I can probably use the XCC MIX CLT to get the original audio.bag
Or, of course, DCoder's MIX dll if he is even more wonderful and brilliant than usual to make that.

I have been working on the installation processes of Launch Base itself and plan the following:

A series of subfolders, much like those of XCC Mod Creator (in fact, mostly identical to avoid confusion). These folders will contain the appropriate files.
A mod author can distribute all loose files if they want, although there will be some restrictions (like not allowed to include a loose thememd.ini)
The loose file support will mainly be used for mod developers when testing their mod (restricted files won't cause an error, they simply won't be copied - although they will be indicated in the log file if it is turned on).
There will also be a "modfiles" folder if the author just wants to lump everything together (although "sound" must be included for stuff to be processed into audio.bag, and "taunts" for new or replacement taunts)
Unrecognised folder names will be ignored and an "index.*" file must be included in the "manual" folder in order for Launch Base to open your manual.

[Marshall]

Progress update:

In Launch Base itself, the following things are still to be implemented:
Integrate DCoder's Audio Bag dll.
Integrate Clean Up program
Uninstall mod on YR close.
Detect if no internet connection before attempting Update Check/download
Ability to cancel an in-progress update download
Detect presence of YRPM playlist files and advise user
String Table (ra2md.csf) stuff [hopefully DCoder is going to create a CSF dll]

And on the install-maker side:
Liblist.gam writer
Install script writer
File validation, settings validation
Plugin security submission and settings.
Mix file writing [hopefully DCoder is going to create a MIX dll]

Please feel free to ask questions or make suggestions at this stage.

This thread should probably be moved to the general RA2/YR forum.

[DCoder]

This thread should probably be moved to the general RA2/YR forum.

Administrative Notice:

Moved to RA2/YR forum.

Integrate DCoder's Audio Bag dll.
String Table (ra2md.csf) stuff [hopefully DCoder is going to create a CSF dll]
Mix file writing [hopefully DCoder is going to create a MIX dll]

I was thinking of combining the three into a single DLL file, as it will no doubt be useful to those reluctant to abandon their own custom-written installers (ROTC, TAKTICS, etc.) The only problem is my laziness at this point, I'm sure I could get all this stuff done in some four days if I wasn't such a slacker Anyone who cares, feel free to poke me over IRC.

On that note, what kind of functionality should I be including, specifically? (This question goes both to Marshall and to those coding their own installers.)

[Bobingabout]

well, the main thing i'll want from your DLL, and some kind of interface, is the ability to create a new bag and IDX to be added to the end of the original, then upon install, extract the original audio.bag, and merge mine into the original.

other useful things would be:
CSF, merging with the existing would be a useful feature
MIX, well, 1 useful feature for the "Updates" would be to merge a mini mix file, to existing ones, or add contents to existing ones.(add and replace files)

[Marshall]

I only need the most basic functionality:
Audio Bag writing: Ability to add or replace a wav file (audio.bag/idx already exists)
Mix writing: Ability to add or replace any file (mix file may not already exist)
CSF writing: Ability to add or replace a string

If there are a large number of files/strings to add then not sure what you can do in the way of writing everything in one go rather than inserting one item at a time and resaving. The former might be quicker if it's possible.

[Bobingabout]

thats why i came up with the idea of a "newstuff" files, basicly, its a CSF, Mix or Bag containing only the newstuff, which then gets merged with what you already have. basicly its the same as adding new files, or strings, however, you first have to extract it from an existing distribution file. these are functions i'd use, and a newstuff.bag would be preferable for storing in your mod folders, because then its only 2 files to worry about, instead of potentially hundreds or thousands. which isn't friendly to indexing, or fragmentation.

for your mod installer maker program, it wouldn't be much of a problem to just insert all the files in the update installer, however, for costom installers, like what i use, its actually quite a nightmare. the way i make the installer, it basicly adds a couple of lines of code for every file. and moving those codes around would take a bit of effort if there are lots of them, as oposed to 1 or 2 mix files (probably ecache and expand), 1 csf and 1 bag/idx.

anyway, i kinda like the idea of the update consisting only of those 4/5 files.

(i'd like to see how that works, adding a "newstuff" bag, to the mods "newstuff" bag, lol, because then you have to add that newstuff bag to audio.bag)

[Marshall]

I haven't yet worked out all the details for the install-maker (whatever it gets called) yet.
I think that the Update Only installer will be generated by comparing two Launch Base folders - the old version of the mod and the new version. New or updated files will be included*, and a new liblist.gam created.
*I might be able to include file patching for updated files, but that will mean you can only update, for example, version 4 to version 5. You wouldn't be able to update version 3 to version 5.
Basically, the Update Only installer is only good for infrequent releases.

[Bobingabout]

yes, i already thought that, update from previous version only. you'd probably have a mod install maker, and an update install maker. i however can make the 2 with my own stuff, all i'd need is some kind of CLT to do it, 1 for my stand alone to extract and merge audio.bag, and 1 to update either the stand alone mod, or the lauchers files folder. i supose the XCC mix CLT can be used for extracting audio.bag, however, first i need to figure out how to use it.

EDIT: XCC MIX CLT Cannot read Audiomd.mix, therefore it cannot be used to extract the YR audio.bag and audio.mix from audiomd.mix inside langmd.mix